20-06-2002 23:50									#1
	What Civ to play next? Support Apolyton

I've only ever finished a game with the Persians before. They seem like they were created just for me. I've always played my empire builder games working for science and production. And their Immortals are great for my first strike in the early game before settling down and building the rest of the game. But now the game seems to repeat itself every time I play them, and I thirst for more. So my question is, with what Civ should I go with next?

	20-06-2002 23:58									#2
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Does your playstyle involve lots of war, or lots of building? Sounds like building. Therefore, I suggest Egypt, or maybe Babylon. You may be suprised at how much the "religious" trait rocks. Many of us consider it to be #1 in the game, others put it at #2, behind industrious. Either way, that speaks well of Egypt.

-Arrian

	21-06-2002 00:07									#3
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I typically try to knock one civ out early on with my almost unstoppable immortals. The only Civs I sometimes have trouble with that early are Greece or Rome, but I'm usually friendly with Greece and try to ignore Rome. Usually its Zulu, Aztecs, or Babylon that goes. The other civs seem to take me seriously most of the time after I've taken over one of their own. Then they leave me alone, and I build up to a space or diplomatic victory, usually space. So basically after a very short warwaging era, I try to be a pure builder. How would that strategy change with other civs?

	21-06-2002 00:20									#4
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YEp, Religious and Industrius! Egypt is the way to go. They were the only civ I used that manage to conquer the world. Their warior sucks for warmongering early on but with stacks of archers for support you there.


A question to poeple that plays egypt all the time.
Do you build the pyramid? When I play egypt, the golden age is sure to come early cause I always end up building the pyramid first.

	21-06-2002 00:28									#5
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If using Egypt, you do have a dilemna:

If you fight early, and use your UU, you blow your golden age early (though this is also true of Persia, but the UU isn't as strong as Immortals). If you build one of the better wonders, you also blow your GA.

When playing Egypt, I used the Pyramids as a shieldholder for the Great Library. I held off for a Medieval GA.

Beating on your neighbors is tough as Egypt if you play with cultural linking on. Greece and Rome. Rome isn't too hard if 1) they don't have iron or 2) you cut their iron supply. Greece is a pain in the butt.

Babylon faces similar difficulties: ancient UU, many early wonders can trigger the GA. Their UU is slow and weak, though it is versatile, fairly cheap, and comes early.

The thing is, though, that these are probably the best "pure builder" civs out there. So if you pull off your early warfare with them, you're in great shape. You may be in for a shock if you play Babylon, since you're used to industrious workers... it's a bit painful using regular ones.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 21-06-2002 at 00:46

	21-06-2002 00:45									#6
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I never use war chariot for war or build them for that matter. As soon as horses become available to me(which is the same time as War Chaiot), I mass build horseman and go nutjob on the civ that is annoyed with me.

Thanks for the tip though Arrian, I'll try to make the pyramid as my shield box for the GL when playing egypt. I'll just get the city that has the pyramid

	21-06-2002 01:00									#7
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If you intend to "go nutjob" on people with horsemen, I strongly suggest Japan.

-Arrian

	21-06-2002 01:03									#8
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and if you want to "go nutjob" on everybody within reach right out of the gate, go with the Aztecs. Check out Vel's workup of them in the Strategy forum:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=52270

	21-06-2002 01:09									#9
	Re: What Civ to play next? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by SomeOneElse I've only ever finished a game with the Persians before. They seem like they were created just for me. I've always played my empire builder games working for science and production. And their Immortals are great for my first strike in the early game before settling down and building the rest of the game. But now the game seems to repeat itself every time I play them, and I thirst for more. So my question is, with what Civ should I go with next?

I'll give some contrarian advice. Spend some time on these boards so that you feel pretty comfortable that you know the specific advantages and disadvantages of the five different civ traits. Then play random maps and random civs.

I spent a lot of time playing the Egyptians and the Japanese when I first got the game (they are still my favorite civs), and learned to do pretty well with both -- adjusting my play styles as necessary to exploit the civ traits. Only recently did I start playing random civs and random maps, and it breathed new life into the game (even though it hadn't gotten dull for me) and created all sorts of interesting challenges. As a side benefit, if you are interested in becoming a better player (rather than just having fun - it is just a game after all ), having to play with different civs in potentially great or not-so-great starts / maps will really teach you how to make the most of your situation and how to prevent your AI opponents from making the most of their situations.

Warning: this can be very frustrating at times, but also very fun!

Catt

	21-06-2002 01:18									#10
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Vel is indeed a brilliant strategist. I do try to play all CIV and make the most of their traits. I have never played japan but I'll be sure tp play them next, but first I must get acquainted w/ germany. I'm playing horribly right now. I must read more of Sir Ralph Strats.

	21-06-2002 01:32									#11
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are these strategies in a centralized place somewhere? its ok if theyre not, but if they are, i dont want to pour through pages of forums to find good in depth strategies

	21-06-2002 01:38									#12
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I posted my Japanese chariot upgrade gambit somewhere... I'll see if I can find it for ya.

Sir Ralph recently posted his archer rush strat... I think I could give you a link to that as well if I looked.

But the answer to your question is no, there is no centralized place for people's strategies... they are spread throughout the forum.

Though old, and somewhat antiquated due to the numerous patches, there are three old threads by Vel (Vel's Strategy threads I, II, III) that are highly regarded. They're LONG though, so look out.

-Arrian

	21-06-2002 01:42									#13
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They're all in the Strategy Forum I think I saw a thread where the strats are listed, but I'm not too sure.

	21-06-2002 01:49									#14
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The strat forum contains a bunch of great stuff, but it's all spread out. For those interested, I found my Japan strategy (works with other civs, but I like it best as Japan). Bear in mind that it is designed for optimal results on Standard Map, Continents, 8 civs, Monarch level:

Do your normal expansion, building about 8 cities... probably stop there, unless is a compelling reason to build more (chokepoint). At this point you should be concerned with two things:

-Building a solid core of productive cities.
-Securing sources of horses and iron.

One luxury is really all you need at this stage, two is nice. More is unecessary, and going out of your way to build a city to claim more is a waste at this stage.

I start off with science at 50%, and set research for iron working. After I get there, I switch to warrior code. After that, masonry or perhaps mysticism. Finally, I drop research to 10%, or 0% w/1 scientist and select horsebackriding.

During this time, I build my core cities, build temples & barracks, hook up horses and start building chariots. As many as I can, in fact. Provided I have an iron source in my territory, I will also build some vet warriors. If I have a relatively non-corrupt coastal city, I'll take a shot at the Colossus.

Upon discovering HBR, I upgrade all chariots to horsies. This is usually 20-25 (400-500 gold). Then as many vet warriors to swords (I hold off on hooking up the iron until this stage) as I can afford.

Then, I attack. The goal is to conquer the continent. I stop short of destroying the civs at first in order to get their tech/maps/etc.

On continents with 2-3 neighbors, this usually results in total conquest in ancient times (unless the Greeks or Zulus are involved). With 4 neighbors, I can usually wipe out 3, and perhaps start on the fourth, before encountering pikes. Then, it's samurai time. Continents with more than 4 neighbors are tough, but I can still do a fair amount of damage early.

The goals are:

-Gain cities/territory/resources
-Gain Great Leaders
-Gain tech parity
-Destroy AIs

This strategy was actually born of a builder mindset. I love Wonders of the World, and HATE not being able to build them all. Heh. Playing on Monarch, I find that building all the ones I want is very, very hard, if not impossible. Further, I want a huge tech lead.

I realized that the only way to pull these goals off was to get a well-placed Forbidden Palace up ASAP. The only way to do that is to fight. So I began doing that. Once I figured out just how useful Japan was, my goals got even loftier. I began to seek Ultimate Power (tm).

Sometimes it fails. Sometimes it works. Sometimes works so well you can hardly believe it.

-Arrian

	21-06-2002 02:20									#15
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Ahh...strategist at work.

I don't go up a level until I've won everykind of victory so I think I'll try this one on Regent.

Thanks Arrian.

	21-06-2002 03:43									#16
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Here's a URL that contain strat

http://apolyton.net/civ3/strategy/

	21-06-2002 06:36									#17
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awesome, thanks

	21-06-2002 18:26									#18
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When you're in the Strategy forum itself (not in a thread), scroll to the bottom, and select for "number of replies," "descending," and "100 days."

The result is a list of great threads.