21-06-2002 17:33									#1
	Spaceship Question Increase Your PM Length

Hello,

in the game that I am currently playing, my empire has developed very much in isolation from the rest of the world on a medium-sized continent in the northern hemisphere. Contact with the other civilisations was established rather early via Marco Polo's Embassy, but I did not sent units out until the late 1700s when I established trade routes with four large Greek cities located on the other side of the sea that devides my continent from the central one. I have been lucky as far as wonders are concerned: Marco Polo, happiness wonders (except Hanging Gardens), Hoover Dam and SETI are all mine.

It is 1878 now and I have eleven huge cities with excellent infrastructure (including manufacturing plants in all of them). Thanks to superhighways, advances have been coming in every three turns or so during the last few decades and I have all three spaceship technologies. Three turns ago, I finished the Apollo Programme and started building spaceship components in all cities.

The main continent is dominated by the Greeks who seem to have done quite a bit of conquering and own 24 (!) cities at the moment. On the same continent, the Persians are down to 8 cities and the Spanish down to 6 cities. On a smaller continent in the southern part of the map, the French have also 6 cities.

Just before this turn, I got tons of messages about Greek cities building spaceship structures. I do not know whether the Greeks have technology for components and modules (I missed the U.N. and have failed to reestablish my embassy), but it cannot be far away for them. It appears that, for the first time, I find myself in a space race that I could actually lose. As much as I enjoy this late game drama, I would very much like to beat them. Since capturing Athens is not really an option (it's located in the middle of the Greek empire and I've neglegted my military a bit), the question is which spaceship configuration is most efficient in my situation. My cities are very productive (Veii produces only
38 resources, but the other cities produce 45 - 50 resources each turn) and profitable (income of almost 800 gold per turn with taxes set to 100 %), but my treasury is still low (ca. 250 gold) due to the amount of rushing I've been doing until now.

I remember a similar situation from a Civ1 game, where I managed to catch up with a spaceship that had only three modules, but all 16 components. In my Civ2 games so far, I have always had the time to build the complete spaceship, so I have not paid detailed attention to its design, but I think it is different from the
Civ1 spaceship in having some propulsion and fuel parts at the front. From a speed perspective, is it better not to build all the components to save the time required to build the structures necessary to connect the "front components"?
If so, do you know the exact number of components affected?

I could imagine that those of you who play the game more regularly than I do have some experience with rapid spaceship construction (although I suppose you would never let another empire become a serious competitor in the space race), so please feel free to comment on my approach. As always, any advice will be much appreciated.

With regards,
Verrucosus

	21-06-2002 19:18									#2
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The fastest space ship takes 5.7 years. It is made up of 8 propulsion, 8 fuel, 1 each of habitation, life, and solar modules. It needs exactly 33 structures to tie it in together. This assumes fusion power is available.
You need to build this as quickly and efficiently as possible. If the ai gets superconductor and can build modules, you will probably lose.
For future games, build up a stockpile of caravans while you are still researching the techs. You can disband them to help build parts. A sneaky way to do this is to start a wonder(manhattan project?) in a city, deliver a caravan to build the wonder, then convert the wonder back to a ss part. This gives you the full 50 shields from each caravan instead of 25 from simple disbanding.

	21-06-2002 19:46									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

build up the structurals last - and launch as soon as the red button becomes visible -- the spaceship will ALWAYS arive, but the bonus will be reduced by whatever % it said for success

SG[1]

	22-06-2002 05:32									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

One solution you can try is -get fusion at all cost, -do not give anything leading to superconductor,
you can then try to build your ship fast in order to launch it first. Get max tax, buy/build 3 of each components, 1 of each module and 15 structurals (get the structural last to get sure if you like). Once you got that, it taes I think 15 years to reach AC. You can then try to switch to fundy/commie and blitz your opponent. I sometimes did that in OCC, so having no military is not a problem. Getting a paratroop or helicopter and a bomber in the opponent's way (or better, a spy) can gain one turn. You have 10 turns to hinder him. Maybe try to get Spanish and Persians in war with the Greek, too. Alternately, if when you reach the correct number of structurals/components/modules, look at the Greek ship. If you can afford it, add a pair of component + the structurals each turn.
Good luck.

	22-06-2002 17:10									#5
	Hail GL Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: extract from the "Scoll's of Wisdom" wich can be found in the GL. Spaceship Shuffle code: Components Structurals Years 6 15 15.7 8 17 13.2 10 21 10.0 12 25 8.3 14 29 6.7 16 33 5.7 Have you ever been producing your spaceship and wondered if you needed to build any more structurals, or how many propulsion units would be enough? This little table summarizes these data for a spaceship with one habitation unit, one solar panel and one life support. The number of components given always comprises an equal number of propulsion and fuel units (i.e. 8 components means 4 of each). The number of years in the table already includes the 25% boost from the discovery of fusion power.

with special thanks to our GL...

Shade

	24-06-2002 01:30									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

scouse, what is your logic in starting structuals last? I start structurals in my less productive cities as soon as possible, picking my more productive cities for components and modules. Modules often wait until later when I get superconductor. I try to schedule things so all is completed concurrently.
-------------------
new news to me, that % of success only affects score, not odds of landing.

	24-06-2002 03:10									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by geofelt new news to me, that % of success only affects score, not odds of landing.

news to me too

	24-06-2002 04:19									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

yeah there was a thread on it a while back...

war, i'm sure you're not too fond of peaceful victories... but have you ever seen a spaceship fail?

	25-06-2002 22:03									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

There are several threads about that question.
About optimal configuration, cf. :
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Foru.../001335.html?24
About SG observation on launching an incomplete ship, cf. the link :
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000740.html
wher there is that :"You know when you have enough structural because there is not a tines sign(*) beside the number of structural
EG:
Structural: 15* =not enough
Structural: 15 =enough
when building spaceships, i first build one of each module, then four components, enough structural and then go on adding component/structural untill i finish the SS.
if the AI is near to complete it's own SS, i launch it the following turn."
and that :"A point worthy of note is that a less than 100% chance of success doesn't mean your ship has a chance of crashing. It just means that the corresponding proportion of your intrepid colonists will die en route (thereby reducing your bonus for the AC landing). So launch at less than 100% if you must. "
About the Shade's figures they are indeed with nuclear fusion!
If there is no way to land on AC before your opponent, then taking his capital is the only mean to win, do it by all means : if bomber is not effective, nuke directly if no SDI, then paratroops or partisans through the ennemy territory, or nuke with a spy...

	26-06-2002 15:25									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It was close, but I made it. My spaceship - 33-16-3 configuration - reached Alpha Centauri in 1896, three years before the Greek one should have arrived. They had launched theirs in the mid-1880s, but they had skimped a bit on components.

I had to dismantle all of my science improvements to afford rush-buying every second turn. In the turn just before the launch, even a few colosseums had to sold, but once I had paid for all the parts I was able to give my hard-working people a nice luxury increase to compensate.

I have to admit that I forgot to look for information in the Great Library first, but by asking here I received a number of tips for my specific situation. geofelt's caravan tip implies that you can change production from wonders to spaceship parts without loss of shields. This is nice, because when the Apollo Wonder is about half finished, one can start working on it (or Manhattan) in other cities as well, and switch to modules as soon as Apollo is built. (I normally wait until I have all the spaceship technologies before I even start Apollo.) Anyway, thanks a lot to all of you.

By the way, watching the landing sequence has never been so satisfying as it was after this close space race (well, except for the first time I saw it I suppose). I even think I might start a game of Alpha Centauri next weekend.

Regards,
Verrucosus

	29-06-2002 04:27									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I know you might be a peaceful type, Verrucous, but sometimes it might be a better choice to prepare and launch a huge campaign against an opponent building the ship. If you knock out his capital and he doesn't move it, the space ship is lost.

Also, since his spaceship would mean you would lose the game, it means the kid gloves can come off. Nukes, spies, whatever needed. When this happened to me once (I had some horrible territory to start, and some ill timed barb attacks), I sent three transports halfway across a large map loaded with some quick builds and garrison troops from my core cities and a carrier and a few (3 I think) subs loaded with nukes. I nuked a city, moved in whatever unit was on the boat, and went to the next one. He moved his capital 4 times and I generated dozens of partisans and some pollution, but I destroyed his ship and gutted his empire (I lost one of the cities, but eventually held on for a spaceship win).

	29-06-2002 05:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The AI cannot be permitted a SS victory!
OK, I've been beaten at OCC - but only because I forgot to poison the damn place to hell and back!

SG[1] - with (2) pouring the red nectar down my throat..

	29-06-2002 22:17									#13
	Remove this text

Scouse Gits, i think we all have been beater to the spaceship by the ai,......this is why we don't let them live long enough to build that bucket of bolts....

BTW i am teaching a girlfriend how to play civ.....she's hooked! but i can't tell if its on me or the game

	30-06-2002 10:42									#14
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by War4ever BTW i am teaching a girlfriend how to play civ.....she's hooked! but i can't tell if its on me or the game

It's best to find out about these things early...get her a game of her own. She may not take your calls--too busy--but she'll think of you fondly once in a while. Probably. Hope you don't take it too hard, War; it is Civ II after all. Good luck.

On the other hand, her being addicted to Civ could be just the foundation you need to create the relationship of the Ages. Again, good luck.

	01-07-2002 22:48									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm impressed. So much for Civ II hurting our social life.

bellisaurius, you are right both in guessing at my favoured style of play and in pointing out that there is a time for everything. In my case, I just did not believe I would have been able to do it, because nukes were unavailable (no Manhattan Project) and my conventional forces consisted of 11 rifleman garrisons, 2 spies and a lone transport. My disregard for military concerns is not normally as reckless as this, but in this game, my isolation tempted me to try undiluted pacifism for once.

Thanks again,
Verrucosus

	12-07-2002 13:36									#16
	@War4ever Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do you ask gifts from your new "ally"? Or do you show her the wonders of the world?
You lucky man, my wife hates my computer and she hates me sitting in front of it.

	12-07-2002 13:50									#17
	Put an end to popups!

Warz - you are a Lucky Man !

SG[1]