22-06-2002 16:18									#1
	Tech idea and a question for coders Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As someone not sufficiently technically skilled to make the mods I want until the next patch(es) of the editor comes along, I've got a question for you codeheads out there:

How drastic would it be to the programming to allow for a technology to have different prerequisites?
To explain:
the current model is:
Tech Z has as prerequisites Tech Y and tech X (sometimes just tech Y, or sometimes being in a new era).
To more fully customize a scenario, I'd like to have Tech Z has as prerequisites Tech Y and EITHER Tech X OR Tech W. Tech X and tech W would be mutually exclusive (i.e. you can discover one or the other and move on up the tech tree, but can NOT have both techs).
What this would allow is more developmental variety in the game.

Historically, suppose Babylon learned about one kind of Gunpowder (tech X) from the French and Germany learned about another type (tech W) from the Chinese. In the model I suggest above, this could result in Babylon having access to (slightly) different gunpowder-based units from Germany's.
Both Babylon and Germany could still research the same next tech up the tech tree.

This would allow every game, units-wise, to develop a little differently.

So, coders, is this one an impossible dream?

	23-06-2002 09:54									#2
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How can you learn a different way to use simple stuff, like iron and gunpowder? You sharpen it and now you have a blade or you put it in a keg and it goes boom.

It's more pointless than a technical problem.

	23-06-2002 20:20									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great How can you learn a different way to use simple stuff, like iron and gunpowder? You sharpen it and now you have a blade or you put it in a keg and it goes boom.

Okay, different example then: instead of theology, try Christian Theology and Taoist Theology. The civ that learns Christian theology might build Crusaders, the civ that learns Taoist thelology might build (pulling something fictional out of a hat) Shaolin Monks.

Similarly, this could result in having access (and NOT having access) to different wonders. Christians can build the Papacy, Taoists can build the Shaolin Temple.

I think, in games with many civs, where tech trading is rampant, this *could* add strategy to tech trading and research. Maybe you don't choose to trade for Taoist Theology because your masterplan requires units more offensively-minded than Shaolin Monks. You wait for the alternate tech to come up instead.

	23-06-2002 21:19									#4
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Your idea is great! It would be awesome if Firaxis would add this to the game.

	24-06-2002 01:59									#5
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First thoughts methinks its a great idea, but its more of a Civ4 idea than an add on or patch one, due to the huge amounts of recoding required.

	24-06-2002 19:10									#6
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oh no, we're just starting to accept civ3 as its own great game, and this mention of a civ4 keeps cropping up. wait a few more years!

	25-06-2002 03:57									#7
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quote: Originally posted by gentleriser Okay, different example then: instead of theology, try Christian Theology and Taoist Theology. The civ that learns Christian theology might build Crusaders, the civ that learns Taoist thelology might build (pulling something fictional out of a hat) Shaolin Monks. Similarly, this could result in having access (and NOT having access) to different wonders. Christians can build the Papacy, Taoists can build the Shaolin Temple. I think, in games with many civs, where tech trading is rampant, this *could* add strategy to tech trading and research. Maybe you don't choose to trade for Taoist Theology because your masterplan requires units more offensively-minded than Shaolin Monks. You wait for the alternate tech to come up instead.

Seperate tech trees belong in a scenario, not a regular game. It defeats the purpose of having civs on a somewhat equal footing.

	25-06-2002 05:25									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great Seperate tech trees belong in a scenario, not a regular game. It defeats the purpose of having civs on a somewhat equal footing.

Absolutely my intent. No complaints about the "no alternate routes" tech tree for the regular game. But the possibility for scenarios could be delectable. It's been suggested before that an element of religion would be a good addition to Civ 3 - well, each Theology (or each different Justice System tech, or each Government type tech) could lead to it's own little tech tree detour unique to that religion (or Justice System, or Government type).

Come to think of it, the editor would also be enhanced by a couple additional flags for techs (especially if the above enhancements are possible):
* a "non-tradeable" flag,
* a tag that only lets a given tech be researched with a given government type (as presently exists with units). A Fascist government researching Freedom of the Press, for example, just seems wrong.
* a threshold tag - certain techs can't be researched on a 10% (or 40%, or whatever you set) science budget, or you risk losing all your progress. Picture researching the Manhattan Project on a shoestring budget. Setbacks would be frequent and tragic.

	25-06-2002 06:18									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wonderful thread!

In addition to gentleriser's ideas, how about:

* a "civ-specific" flag - for wonders of the world, buildings, etc
* a "requires x cities" flag - certain techs for small civs, others for big civs

However, this should be added to the main game. If each tech race were a little different, every game would be different. It would add a little more excitement. Should the player/AI research a superior tech, or should he/she buy from the player/AI? Perhaps it could be a preference?

However, I do believe that it is a little late for PTW. Perhaps, then, in Xpack 2 or Civ4!