23-06-2002 02:59									#1
	Peaceful oppositon! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

From a concerned citizen:
With the amalgamation of all the current polical parties into one front preparing for war with France, i feel a strong opposition is necessary, especialy since so many in the cabinet have already joined this war party. Isay that those that have voted for a peacefull beginning with France (unitl our lackluster sitation improves) should form a party of our own.

Anyone else want in? Any suggestions for a name?

	23-06-2002 03:00									#2
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BURN THE PEACENIKS! BURN THE PEACENIKS! COALITION ALL THE WAY! DEATH TO FRANCE!

sorry there

	23-06-2002 03:32									#3
	Put an end to popups!

War with france now is the only good option to us. If we leave them alone, they'll eventually come in with knights and stomp on our chariots.

	23-06-2002 04:21									#4
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hi ,

hey !! , war now is bound to end wrong for us , ....

dont worry , you shall have a lot of time for war , ....

panag > gives out free banana's , so the people relax , ...

have a nice day

	23-06-2002 04:21									#5
	Re: Peaceful oppositon! Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by GePap From a concerned citizen: With the amalgamation of all the current polical parties into one front preparing for war with France, i feel a strong opposition is necessary, especialy since so many in the cabinet have already joined this war party. Isay that those that have voted for a peacefull beginning with France (unitl our lackluster sitation improves) should form a party of our own. Anyone else want in? Any suggestions for a name?

the DIA is opposing many of our plans for the war with france (although they dont oppose the war itself).

the DIA also has the most # of office holders in it's ranks.

the DIA is in no way aligned with the UPC, UFC, whatever they call themselves now.

if you want to oppose the war, knock yourself out. but dont plan to run for office any time soon.

	23-06-2002 04:26									#6
	hey UberKruX Enter the AD-FREE zone

What happned to the cool red letters?

	23-06-2002 04:28									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

i get lazy sometimes, i only put it where i need it for effect.

but since you asked,

this post brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood.

	23-06-2002 05:45									#8
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Peacenicks just love that, I'll bet.

	23-06-2002 06:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes Peacenicks just love that, I'll bet.

oh you betcha.

	23-06-2002 08:22									#10
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Join the DIA. Though we do support the war somewhat, we are not as strongly or at-all-costs supporting it as the others. We are always very cautious before considering ANY war.

	23-06-2002 09:31									#11
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 Join the DIA. Though we do support the war somewhat, we are not as strongly or at-all-costs supporting it as the others. We are always very cautious before considering ANY war.

which is why you SHOULDNT join the DIA.

	23-06-2002 16:28									#12
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So in other words Uber is saying that caution is a bad thing....

	23-06-2002 23:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 So in other words Uber is saying that caution is a bad thing....

yes. caution in my mind is hesitation. PREPAREDINESS is my caution.

if we meet the germans, or any of their kin, they wont hesitate to roll over our weak jungle ridden selves.

with a strong enough military, we will have the power to not only AVOID being abused, we have the power to INTIMIDATE, and even DESTROY anyone who messes with us.

i am an extremeist warmonger. my thoughts may or may not reflect those of the hawk party. or the UFC

	23-06-2002 23:13									#14
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CAution does not mean hesitation. Real time it means hesitation, but game time it almost always makes no difference.

	23-06-2002 23:42									#15
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The DIA soon will not control the most ministry posts! Vlad and I are bound to win the VP/IE elections, and we can take Finance too!

	24-06-2002 00:51									#16
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX if we meet the germans, or any of their kin, they wont hesitate to roll over our weak jungle ridden selves.

Where the French are, are the Germans not far. Unless we play with culturally linked starts off, which I don't know.

	24-06-2002 02:21									#17
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX which is why you SHOULDNT join the DIA.

If i remember correctly, good old Uber was pretty cautious about a dumb attack on a french settler.

I fully support a war on France. Thus, I traded for Warrior Code, which will prove usefull if we shan't have iron or horses.

As a free speaking member of the DIA, I must say it is unfortunate that not all of our ministers are as aligned to the general will of the people, but they do have their own jobs to do.

But, as a statement, I declare I am a member of the DIA because it follows the will of the people, and has allowed me to keep my own opinions and convictions. And, in following that, I will always try and provide you the best I can for this upcoming war with France.

	24-06-2002 03:03									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot If i remember correctly, good old Uber was pretty cautious about a dumb attack on a french settler.

that wasnt really caution, that was more of common sense.

we have no army to attack with.

	24-06-2002 03:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX that wasnt really caution, that was more of common sense. we have no army to attack with.

hi ,

that is soon to be changed , .....

have a nice day

	24-06-2002 06:58									#20
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yeah really uber admits it himself. I do support the war now (as long as we fit a couple temples into case pink).

	24-06-2002 07:08									#21
	On War Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Now that the situation is more clear, I am not as totally opposed to war, but I do have two issues left. One, how do we know the french have not expanded to the west, or perhaps even crossed the mountains. We have 2 cities, why wouldn't they, with all the emperor bonuses. Also, should we plan so far ahead, i mean,plan pink is currenly somewhat off, if in a positive way because we have WC sooner. Also,a different admin will have to finish Plan Pink even if begun, so should future admins be expected to carry pout the plans of past ones?

Two further questions: What the heck happened to the press? (where are these newspapers anyway?) and would it be more wise to have Paliamentary Party slates and vote for parties than to vote on each candidate seperately? Does the constitution exclusively preclude one way or the other?

	24-06-2002 07:15									#22
	Re: On War Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by GePap Now that the situation is more clear, I am not as totally opposed to war, but I do have two issues left. One, how do we know the french have not expanded to the west, or perhaps even crossed the mountains. We have 2 cities, why wouldn't they, with all the emperor bonuses. Also, should we plan so far ahead, i mean,plan pink is currenly somewhat off, if in a positive way because we have WC sooner. Also,a different admin will have to finish Plan Pink even if begun, so should future admins be expected to carry pout the plans of past ones?

the french dont have any cities other then paris (trade screen), we got a bonus settler, we were lucky.

i think every(intelligent)one wants to fight france, and case pink is the best way to do it.

i'm sure the next regime (which might not chnage that much from this one) will follow it through.

	24-06-2002 07:20									#23
	PINK Support Apolyton

But Plan Pink has nothing in it about a possible endgame, nor does it considere possible changes in our geopolitical situation, especially meeting other civs either further north, south, or the possiblity of the French going to war vs. someone else (which would be a positive).

I am not against the war anymore, but wary about setting plans in motion that might become irrelevant before they are put into action, ala Schlieffen or Plan 17.

	24-06-2002 09:06									#24
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quote: I am not against the war anymore, but wary about setting plans in motion that might become irrelevant before they are put into action, ala Schlieffen or Plan 17.

The Schlieffen plan would have work if the Germans had actually followed it.

	24-06-2002 09:23									#25
	Re: PINK Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by GePap But Plan Pink has nothing in it about a possible endgame, nor does it considere possible changes in our geopolitical situation, especially meeting other civs either further north, south, or the possiblity of the French going to war vs. someone else (which would be a positive).

We know where the French are, so we attack them first. Waiting to make contact with other civs will slow us down to the point of no retrn to the game.

	24-06-2002 09:41									#26
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yeah.

i agree with thinking into the future but u may get lost. we should, this early on only concentrate with the immediate things, which is we need the space (and a rep for beating the s*** outta nething that breaths).

oh yeah not all DIA members are peaceniks i just don't support unnecessary wars. this one i support. (i also support pretty much all other DIA policies)

	24-06-2002 09:47									#27
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The fundamental assumption underpinning Case Pink is that we must expand militarily to survive and flourish.

We have a cr*p start. We have relatively poor land.

We must expand into another civ's start (annex them) to have the room and the time to build Apolytonia into the world power we dream of her being.

Case Pink is mainly a production plan for how to get the forces necessary for early victory into the field in as short a time as possible using the Archer Gambit. The plan as it evolved was simply to maximize our military forces in a minimum time.

No assumptions have been made that the French are the first target. In fact I believe that there may very well be another civ closer.

The plan stops short of a plan for the field. For that I believe we must trust the instincts and abilities of our chosen leaders, Uber and Trip.

BTW. I'd really like to see a sweep of the black swath on our immediate NW border very soon. With this much jungle, there has to be Dye and or Silk very close. Roading that could help keep the archers coming faster.

	24-06-2002 10:09									#28
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We must find out more about the world around us. If there is still available productive land, we must quickly build settlers to seize it. Building an army in the jungle is suicidal as France's production almost certainly outweigh ours. If there is better available terrain, our success is greatly improved. If not, then a jungle army it will have to be.

	24-06-2002 10:38									#29
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We likely out produce France at this point, but not for much longer. The French will build many settlers to found new cities for us. We can build the army to 'protect' them.

	24-06-2002 10:57									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Duddha The Schlieffen plan would have work if the Germans had actually followed it.

Ahhh, but the Schlieffen Plan had one fatal flaw. The Germans didn't account for their vastly extending right flank (which turned out to be the First Army), and so they had to wheel it back in towards the rest of the group. This stopped their slicing motion east of Paris, which doomed them to a war of attrition.

Anyways, our start position is so horrible, that any hopes for expansion now are foolhardy. There is jungle as far as the eye can see in every direction but west. If we build in the jungle, we face disease along with very low food and production rates. If we build outside of the jungle (assuming that no one else has settled those areas), then we face a country heavily divided due to distance, as well as incredible corruption and waste. Expanding to the west (read: over France) is our only chance for survival in the future.