23-06-2002 09:54									#1
	Nasty bug/exploit with Wealth Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So I was sitting in the bathtub, when my thoughts turned to Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri ("SMAC" to its friends), and the number of bugs still lingering in the game. The worst of which was known as the "Stockpile Energy" bug (SMAC's equivalent of Civ 3's "Wealth"), and to my horror I realized it, or rather its converse, probably still exists in Civ 3. I ran downstairs to test, and it's confirmed in 1.21f.

Here's the bug: Set a city to Wealth. Commerce happens at the BEGINNING of upkeep each turn, before food/shields are processed in any city. So at the first Zoom To City chance you get, scroll ahead in the city list (by pressing right-arrow) and change a Wealth city to something else. Voila - you got credit for BOTH the money from Wealth and the shields for that turn. To make it even worse, when you switch off Wealth, you seem to get the Wealth income as shields in the box for free as well!

If the city was producing 80 shields, you'd get 20 gold income, 20 shields in the box when you switched off Wealth, and then it would produce the 80, all on the same turn. This obviously needs to get patched...

Was this known? I haven't heard of it before.

	23-06-2002 11:39									#2
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Never heard of this before.
This really should be fixed , imagine this in MP

	24-06-2002 17:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Firaxis!

Now you must fix this, this was the biggest SMAC spolier.

	24-06-2002 18:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oh really, come one and lets be fair. The stockpile energy bug was not even close to being the biggest SMAC spoiler.

Good catch though T-Hawk, assuming its confirmed.

This only points out another big lie from Firaxis who claims that the Civ3 engine is new and all that prattle.

	24-06-2002 18:11									#5
	Put an end to popups!

Just think, one million units at $50 a pop for recycling previous code WITHOUT EVEN ATTEMPTING TO WASH OUT THE EXISTING BUGS.

	24-06-2002 18:55									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well, this is interesting.

i'll just file this under saving/reloading and not use it

but i'd be afraid of this in mp

	24-06-2002 19:00									#7
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In SMAC you could infiltrate and see if someone had stockpile in their queue. I don't know how you could possibly tell this one.

	24-06-2002 19:05									#8
	Suffering from ads?

So T-Hawk, did you jump out ofthe tub and run down to your computer to test this?

I'm picturing a humorous situation.

That is a nasty bug though.

	24-06-2002 19:15									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I do not think it's because of recycled code. Note that the Civ 3 bug is the opposite of the Stockpile Energy bug. In SMAC, FIRST the city did its shield production, THEN it credited the Stockpile cash at the END of upkeep. In Civ 3, first the city does the Wealth cash at the BEGINNING of upkeep, then the shield production city-by-city. Nearly identical effect, but not caused by the same code.

I am of course shocked that Firaxis would still have this same bug in Civ 3 as we had been complaining about in SMAC for several years now.

Is there a Firaxis address to report bugs like this? I can't find any.

Dunk999: You're free to visualize whatever you want

	25-06-2002 19:29									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm just thinking... Here's this guy sitting in the tub, possibly singing the Oscar Meyer Bologna song. Then all of a sudden it hits him. DAMN!!! There may be a bug in Civ III!!! Chaos ensues.

	25-06-2002 19:57									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Good work T-Hawk.
Has anyone confirmed this?

	25-06-2002 20:02									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

I had posted a bug report on this issue to Firaxis back in April but never received any confirmation and I kept quiet about it hoping people would not be able to use the exploit before Firaxis got out a patch to fix it.

I confirmed the exploit again today and posted a similar thread on Civfanatics.

You can definitely count almost all your shield production twice (once as wealth - once as units) if you play your game carefully.

	25-06-2002 20:16									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

They are aware of it.

My opinion of it is that the micromanagement is kinda high for this to be worth much to me. I don't see much point in using an exploit like this against the AI. Then again, I don't cheat at solotaire either.

I don't think it'll work MP in turnless mode, in any case.

	26-06-2002 00:44									#14
	Got spare money?

Maybe labeling "Wealth" as a built item would solve this...?

	26-06-2002 01:36									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm They are aware of it. My opinion of it is that the micromanagement is kinda high for this to be worth much to me. I don't see much point in using an exploit like this against the AI. Then again, I don't cheat at solotaire either. I don't think it'll work MP in turnless mode, in any case.

But plenty of people will use it in MP. Even only doing this for a couple of times (when desperatly) can make quite a differance IMHO. i don't want to play against people who suddenly 'double' their city's

It's a non-issue for SP a for as i'm concerned. I don't cheat either. Unless offcourse the AI has found out about this

	26-06-2002 04:05									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I agree that the micromanagement isn't worth it to me, but I also agree that some will use it in MP to cheat. What you do in SP, I don't care one way or the other, but in MP, that's a different story.

Maybe someone can figure out how to determine if it is being used in MP when it comes out.

	26-06-2002 06:01									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree with the point about it being too fidly to be bothered with it...at least I know it would be for me personally.

But you can be assured that there are those who would exploit it in turn-based multiplayer.

	26-06-2002 06:24									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree... the bottom line effect is not as great as that 99999999999999 gold per turn bug ( ) IMHO. Too much hassle to get the effect that you would want. Besides, i make so much money anyway in my games before the middle ages (my income that I get to pocket is about 100/turn at this point on average).


Now if this bug could be applied to wonders...