23-06-2002 21:27									#1
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With even the current editor, I see possibilities for new and cool wonders. I'm leaving alone what should be great and small for now.

East India Trading Company:
Available with Navigation, minimum 3 harbours.
Acts as an offshore platform in the city where it is built (+1 shield per water square)

Waystation Network:
Available with Map Making, requires horses, requires more horses (I haven't tested whether checking off horses twice in the editor means you need two supplies of horses to build it).
Mounted units have 5x movement rate on roads instead of 3x.

Drake's Drydock:
Available with Magnetism
Ships built at this city have +1HP.

The Valkyries' Mead:
Available with Warrior Code, expires with Chivalry
All Warrior units have +3HP, all Swordsman units have +2HP. (Jaguar Warriors probably only get +2HP)

Alchemist's Fire:
Available with Literature
Your catapults have lethal bombardment.

Welsh Yew Bowyery:
Available with Chivalry
Your Longbowmen gain Zone of Control.

Marco Polo's Expedition:
Available with Education, expires with Fission
Your civ gains an additional trait (expansionist, militaristic etc.)

Hudson's Bay Trading Company:
Available with Banking
Your luxuries trades earn you 1/3 more money (this is not at the expense of the civ you are trading with, it just pads your coffers straight from the new world). No effect on trades where you're the buyer.

And lastly, the obligatory gratuitously whacked-ass suggestion:

The Great Funeral Pyre:
Requires Heroic Epic
All Leader units gain bombardment range 1 and the "nuclear weapon" and "tactical missile" traits.

	23-06-2002 23:03									#2
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I think that there should be more modern-day actual wonders, rather than simply concepts:

Eiffel Tower
Sydney Opera House
Statue of Liberty
Brandenburg Gate
World Trade Centre
The Internet

Don't ask me what they do; it just seems a shame that the modern-day wonders we have are made-up when we have so many real-life ones.

	23-06-2002 23:04									#3
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btw - Funereal Pyre.

Nuke, in the ancient age? Erm...no

	23-06-2002 23:54									#4
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nukes in the ancient age? sure, if they prayed hard enough and sacraficed enough animals and gold then maybe the gods would feel right in smiting a few people.

	24-06-2002 00:35									#5
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 I think that there should be more modern-day actual wonders, rather than simply concepts:

More interested in what they do, myself.

Eiffel Tower
Requires Iron.
Gives you a 20-turn supply of iron conveniently downtown if ever your trade agreements run out.

Sydney Opera House
Your entire civilization produces zero culture, but since you're good at sports, you double the effects of your coliseums. (I love Australia).

Statue of Liberty
Increases assimilation rate of foreign nationals in your cities.

Brandenburg Gate
I'd rather see the Berlin Wall - more of a wonder, even if it's not a positive one. One additional unhappy person in this city, but the odds of losing your cities to culture are reduced big time.

World Trade Centre
Increased odds of intercepting enemy aircraft in this city.

The Internet
All civs have increased waste. Including yours.

If you really want a modern one, make the Chunnel... lets you build roads in coast squares. But that's for after PTW comes out.

	24-06-2002 02:45									#6
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quote: Originally posted by gentleriser Statue of Liberty Increases assimilation rate of foreign nationals in your cities.

A very interesting idea IMO. Too bad it can't be done with the current editor.

	24-06-2002 03:29									#7
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hi ,

canals should be in the game , .....

the Wallstreet wonder should be a big wonder , at the same time the civ that builds it , and the other civ's should ba able to build a central bank , giving you 5 percent like now , with a limit of 50 gold in total , the Wallstreet wonder should put an other 50 gold on top , but you would need at least 2500 before you would have it , ....

have a nice day

	24-06-2002 06:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 I think that there should be more modern-day actual wonders, rather than simply concepts: Eiffel Tower Sydney Opera House Statue of Liberty Brandenburg Gate World Trade Centre The Internet Don't ask me what they do; it just seems a shame that the modern-day wonders we have are made-up when we have so many real-life ones.

The ancient wonders are largely made up too! The Seven Wonders of the World included, in addition to the four in Civ (Pyramids, Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Colossus), the Tomb of Masoleus, the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, and the Temple of Artemis at Ephesis.

The list of modern wonders varies, but includes stuff that isn't applicable to the game - Panama Canal, big bridges, tall stuff, Chunnel, etc. Of course, the Hoover Dam (or another big dam - the one in South America, the Aswan Dam, that thing the Chinese are doing) tends to make these lists.

The game mechanic - making stuff up for good design reasons - works better than slavish adherence to the concept of Wonders. Pick an impressive thing, figure out what it does. I like some of the suggestions here (and their possible effects - the Internet is wasting my time RIGHT NOW!), but the Sydney Opera House? Neat looking, but what does it DO? Why is it a wonder (it's cool and distinctive, but it's still just an opera house)? Why the Brandenburg Gate, and not the Arc de Triomphe?

We do live in an age of wonders. Go anywhere in less than a day? Talk to people around the world instantaneously? How about "cure for small pox" as a wonder! "Green Revolution" (the agricultural one, not the eco-cultist type) would make a good one - once you build it, you get an extra food or two per square... in every square.

	24-06-2002 09:59									#9
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Here was my idea for the Internet. Since it allows people from different countries and thoughts to connect and talk to each other, I would think it would allow the rest of the world to see your way of life in a much better light, for instance, in China, they are closing lots of internet cafes because the people are being exposed to what America is really like, not commie propeganda. I would think that if you built the Internet, your cities should be immune to culture flipping, and maybe have a 5-10% bonus when checking to flip other civs cities. I'm just not sure how useful that would be by the time you would be able to build it, normally when I play, by the time you get to the modern ages, you don't see many flips anymore. But again, that's usually because everyone has control of a continent and no one's in range.

Edit: I forgot to mention why it would give your civ immunity to flipping, and that would be because it draws your people closer together, so they have a much bigger cultural identity.

	24-06-2002 19:49									#10
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I would like to see more modern wonders.

I like the Statue of Liberty. I like the idea for its benefit as well. Definately, only Republics and Democracies should be able to build it or reap its benefit.

I disagree with the Internet being a wonder. It has no benefit that isn't available to everyone. Maybe it could increase war weariness (ignores government types) globally to help bring about world peace.

gentleriser... I didn't like that comment about the World Trade Center.

Modern Wonders could also simply have the same benefit of ancient ones which have become obsolete. A Great Library replacement, a Colossus replacement, etc.

	24-06-2002 20:55									#11
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Some very nice ideas, gentleriser, I especially like the Berlin Wall (as it has a choice: better culture flip at the expense of happiness), East India company, statue of liberty and Drake's drydock. But almost all of your wonders are worth adding, no super advantage so that you need to build it or lose, but each one worth it in some situation.

You miss one aspect of the game IMHO, which is not addressed in the original wonders either: something that battles pollution.
Why not a Tokyo Air Convetion, which halves pollution in all your cities? You could even include a rule that says the Americans aren't able to build it, if you want some more realism

DeepO

	24-06-2002 21:22									#12
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hi ,

they should put at least 10 big and 10 small wonders extra in the game , ......

there is room for it , especially with more civ's on the way , .....

have a nice day

	24-06-2002 22:22									#13
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Arch de' Triumph -- culture generator, requires victorious army, small wonder

Temploe of Zues -- culture generator, possibly happiness, available with Polytheism, requires ivory

Statue of Liberty -- modern era version of Colossus

	24-06-2002 22:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Amadan Arch de' Triumph -- culture generator, requires victorious army, small wonder Temploe of Zues -- culture generator, possibly happiness, available with Polytheism, requires ivory Statue of Liberty -- modern era version of Colossus

hi ,

, "Statue Of Liberty" , it would be easier for "foreign" workers and settlers to become citizens of your civ , ......

have a nice day

	25-06-2002 00:06									#15
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quote: Originally posted by panag , "Statue Of Liberty" , it would be easier for "foreign" workers and settlers to become citizens of your civ , ...... have a nice day

That would be better, but would require extra work with coding which probably won't be done.
I was trying to limit suggestions to the currently available flags.

	25-06-2002 00:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Why not a Tokyo Air Convetion, which halves pollution in all your cities? You could even include a rule that says the Americans aren't able to build it, if you want some more realism DeepO

Ugh.

I forget, do solar plants eliminate pollution in the city it's in? If so, then we can have some kind of Solar Power Wonder (counts as a Solar Plant in all cities on the continent).

	25-06-2002 00:34									#17
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quote: Originally posted by gentleriser Statue of Liberty Increases assimilation rate of foreign nationals in your cities.

I like that, I hope a Firaxian reads it.

I would also like a small wonder which will remove any chance of the city its built in flipping. Berlin Wall sounds good, but comes too late in the game.

	25-06-2002 00:41									#18
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The wonders should have movies, period. Even if they're only 5 seconds. Imagine the Pyramids...with soothing, wonder specific music in the background, the image starts close in looking at a man placing the final stone and pans out to reveal the whole structure. Then the voice of Ramses or the master engineer (or someone) speaks and says something nice about the wonder as the text appears on the screen, similar to SMAC. A very nice touch which could give the game a more serious feel.

	25-06-2002 01:25									#19
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quote: World Trade Centre Increased odds of intercepting enemy aircraft in this city.

Did you think this was funny?

-Arrian, unamused.

	25-06-2002 01:35									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Amadan That would be better, but would require extra work with coding which probably won't be done. I was trying to limit suggestions to the currently available flags.

hi ,

, wanna bet it could be done in under 4 hours , ...

if they want it , they could do it , ....

we need more wonders with all those "new" civ's coming , ....

have a nice day

	25-06-2002 02:37									#21
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quote: Originally posted by panag if they want it , they could do it , .... we need more wonders with all those "new" civ's coming , .... have a nice day

They could, but I doubt they will.

Another good idea (that has been mentioned other places before) is Edisons Workshop (or Bell Labs) which would become available with electricity and act as a late-game Great Library.

	25-06-2002 04:06									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Amadan Another good idea (that has been mentioned other places before) is Edisons Workshop (or Bell Labs) which would become available with electricity and act as a late-game Great Library.

This CAN be done with the current editor and Gramphos' multi-tool. Anyhow, I'd rather like to see new wonders with new effects than duplicates of existing wonders.

	25-06-2002 05:04									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Did you think this was funny? -Arrian, unamused.

Arrian and Dunk999 (and anyone else offended), you have my apologies. It was not a joke for all tastes, and bitter humour - a friend of mine worked at the WTC.

	25-06-2002 05:24									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Carver I like that, I hope a Firaxian reads it. I would also like a small wonder which will remove any chance of the city its built in flipping. Berlin Wall sounds good, but comes too late in the game.

Here is how to make sure they DO read it:
http://www.firaxis.com/contact_gamefeedback.cfm

BTW, I want the Eifel Tower and Staue of Liberty back that were in Civ 2, and with the same functions, including improving your reputation with other civs.

	25-06-2002 13:41									#25
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Some wonders by civs-to-come:

Angkor Wat counts as a temple in all cities within 4 squares
Stonehenge city squares in all cities within 4 squares get +1 of everything
Salomon's Court decreases corruption
The Ten Commandments improves culture flipping odds
Camelot reduces the production costs of mounted units
The Thousand and One Nights (or: Grand Bazar) decreases waste
The Great Mountain Road reduces the time to build roads
Inquisition expells citizens of foreign cultures
Topkapi Palace increases the effectiveness of artillery
East Indies Company counts as a harbor in each city
Kinderdike Mills +2 shields in each city at river/lake
Red Cross allows wounded units to return to nearest barracks
Sydney Opera House makes 8 content citizens happy
Kruger National Park no pollution from forest squares
Freud's Interpretation of Dreams counts as a luxury

Last edited by Ribannah on 25-06-2002 at 13:48

	25-06-2002 17:01									#26
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quote: Originally posted by dunk999 I forget, do solar plants eliminate pollution in the city it's in? If so, then we can have some kind of Solar Power Wonder (counts as a Solar Plant in all cities on the continent).

not really: solar plants don't produce pollution themselves, but they don't eliminate pollution from the factory itself.

	25-06-2002 18:02									#27
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quote: Originally posted by gentleriser Arrian and Dunk999 (and anyone else offended), you have my apologies. It was not a joke for all tastes, and bitter humour - a friend of mine worked at the WTC.

I didn't know that. Sorry to hear it.

-Arrian

	25-06-2002 18:08									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah Kruger National Park no pollution from forest squares

Do forests produce pollution? Maybe I'm still into SMAC too much, but I assumed pollution reduces terraforming pollution...
I'd make Kruger so that all forests in that city produce one more food, two more gold. And perhaps something useful for Jungle too -- okay, Kruger is not really a thick jungle, but it has some bush

DeepO

	25-06-2002 18:11									#29
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quote: Originally posted by gentleriser Arrian and Dunk999 (and anyone else offended), you have my apologies. It was not a joke for all tastes, and bitter humour - a friend of mine worked at the WTC.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

	25-06-2002 18:13									#30
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , , "Statue Of Liberty" , it would be easier for "foreign" workers and settlers to become citizens of your civ , ...... have a nice day

That's a good idea!

That would make assimilating conquered peoples from higher culture civs easier to bring under control. It would also protect against culture flipping.

What do you say Firaxis?