24-06-2002 05:33									#1
	Fun and Games with Modern Armor Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"Hammurabi cried in a whisper at some image, at some vision -- he cried out twice, a cry that was no more than a breath:" 'The horror! The horror!'
_____________________________

The Babylonians and the Japanese knew that the Egyptians were a peaceful, cultural people. Throughout known history, they had only engaged in one war, but even that was a war supported by the world community when the evil Aztecs had threatened all.

(Little did they know that the Egyptians kept close a dark secret: The rape, pillage, and dastardly destruction of a Roman people, far in ancient history. The Egyptians, soldier and civilian alike, reveled in their ancient martial past, and held strange, arcane rituals celebrating the fall of Rome, and the ancient heroes Ramses and Cheops.)

Strangely, since the Egyptians had developed and sold the technology of Steel, they had gone incommunicado. No word for hundreds of years...

"Tokugawa, have you seen the reaaally big Destroyers that Cleo just positioned in all of Egypt's key straits and seas?"

"Those aren't Destroyers, Hammy, you idiot. Those are called Battleships... my scientists have been working on the concept for some time now," said the Japanese ruler.

"Well, aren't you worried that these Destroyers, or Battleships, WHATever, represent a threat to our sovereign nations?"

"No, not really. I'd keep an eye on those big bastards, but number one, Cleo's never gone to war except when we asked her to take on that psycho Monte-zoom up your a$$, and number two, I don't know about you, but my Infantry and Cavalry forces are strong enough to deal with anything she can dish out. I am a little worried that she's got 15 of the 18 Great Wonders, but we always knew she could build like crazy... it's too bad she picked up Leonardo's Workshop from Monty, but, hey, she deserved it."

"By the way, have you spoken with her recently?"

"No, it's been a while... she's probably busy building stuff. I really wouldn't worry."

"OK, Toke, I'll relax; you cover my back, and I've got yours... let's talk about who gets what part of China."

Many, many years past. Egyptian cities were truly well developed, and could support a balanced effort of building, researching, and increasing the Royal Treasury. Cleo refused any contact with any other ruler, for fear that even a hint of her rapidly developing technology would become known to the world. Her scientists developed Tanks, and she set her mind to building a huge force of them.

And yet still Egypt remained isolated.

Her scientists developed Flight and Rocketry, and her cities built Fighter Jets.

And yet still Egypt remained isolated.

Her scientists developed a vision of radically improved Tanks, called Modern Armor... they developed new materials, and Cleo gained the approval of the Egyptian people to spend practically the entire Royal Treasury on a one-time military splurge.

The first "communication" came in 1864-66 AD, when both the Japanese and the Babylonians were introduced to Modern Armor.

The Japanese were unprepared and devastated, as their forces had overextended in a bid to capture much of China.

Hammurabi thought his continent secure, as he had left as homeland security the Longstanding Longbowmen Reserve, over 50 strong... nothing on the planet could possible overcome his Infantry and ready reaction Reserve!

'The horror! The horror!'
____________________________________

Having failed miserably in the 2nd mini-tourney, I tried my hand at Nathan's June Tournament game. For those that haven;t played it, I don;t know all the settings, but here's what he wrote in description:

"Here's the set-up: Monarch setting, standard size map, archipelego with maximum water, other map settings random. (Don't worry, it didn't come out warm and wet. No barbarians, so the only thing you have to guard your cities against is other civs. (Also, there aren't any goodie huts, so don't waste your time looking for them.)"

SPOILER BELOW

You start in a pretty good spot, sharing a continent with Rome. Buh-bye Caesar, here's a pack of slavering Swordsmen... SPQR my a$$.

Got lucky with two GLs in the final stages of the massacre (BTW, thanks Arrian for the tip on "cleaning up your home continent messes before the rest of the world finds out what a psycho bastard you really are"), and build my FP and the Lighthouse.

So then I went builder / settler. A good break from the military messes I've gotten myself into lately. Saved my GA for later, too. Expanded like crazy, got a lock on various resources... I think at one point I had 4 out of 5 Horses!!

I built a force of 40-50 WCs for later upgrade, and didn;t really touch them until I had gotten Military Trad... who has that kind of money??!! 100 gps a pop!!! I scrambled to pay for the upgrades.

As time went on, the Aztec became the only serious competition. A surgical strike with Cavs and Rifleman took out their top 2 cities, also netting me Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Leonardo, Bach, Sun Tzu, and furs!!

I build TOE and Smith's, which triggered my GA. I had it all... Ultimate Power (tm).

So I decided to experiment a little with the late game, rather than just a Cav / Tank domination win.

MY GOD, have you seen MAs in action??!!

And we thought Samurai cut through Spearmen like butter?? MAs are unbelievable, crazy strong, juggernauts.

24-16-3.

Just think about those stats for a second... knowing that the AI civs are slow to upgrade unless they gots lots o' dough.

Take along a few Arty just too wear down the top defenders, and NOTHING can handle these guys.

When Hammy threw a huge stack of Infantry, Rifleman, and Longbowmen (!) at me, I had too laugh. Bang bang bang... all elite, all the time, and I finally had 1, 2, 3 ARMIES. Can;t believe I played almost a whole game without them!! BTW, Do NOT put a lot of MAs in Armies, as you lose individual unit blitz. So, 2xMA Armies, and some 3xInfantry Armies. Voila, quick late game builds of Heroic Epic and the Academy, it only gets better.

I'm beelining for Robotics, just to see what kind of mayhem I can commit with RAs as well. I mistakenly researched Rocketry, thinking that the picture in the tech tree was of RAs (instead of SAMs). Jet Fighters, big whoop.

I don;t know how I'll score in the tournament, but boy am I having fun!!

Fun and games with MAs: otherwise known as late-game unstoppable evisceration.

Sidenote #1: I'm experimenting with just taking major cities. I am NOT bombarding them back into the stone age... if you can handle flipping, it seems bigger captured cities maintain many more of their buildings, including Marketplaces and Harbors, which are both obviously invaluable. Also, being 7 pop or higher is very useful for the counter-attack.

Sidenote #2: Related to some other threads, I think we are all in for a big surprise when it comes to MP. I staged two invasions that were more or less the same: show up out of nowhere and land on a Hill with 24 MAs, 8 Arty (should of used 16), and 4-8 Infantry. Actually the Aztec invasion was the same, but with very early usage of Cavs and Rifles. This is more or less unstoppable.

	24-06-2002 07:00									#2
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quote: Sidenote #1: I'm experimenting with just taking major cities. I am NOT bombarding them back into the stone age... if you can handle flipping, it seems bigger captured cities maintain many more of their buildings, including Marketplaces and Harbors, which are both obviously invaluable. Also, being 7 pop or higher is very useful for the counter-attack.

Quite agreed. If you have units you can spare to lose, it sure would be nice to have Marketplace, etc. intact. The only hassle may be that under Rep/Dem on foreign shores, it may be a long time until there is any profit from it, other than for happiness.

Another option is to spend Cruise Missles on the defender. They seem to be defender-specific in targeting against cities! Please correct me if you have experienced otherwise.

	24-06-2002 07:06									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1. In the game described, my two highest production cities are distant, with Buto at 8.62 and Teotihucan at 7.52.

2. Not much experience with CMs. If what you say is true, it's incredibly important.

	24-06-2002 08:06									#4
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MAs are wonderful. When a game is running tight into the Modern Era, I beeline those bad boys and launch Operation: Grass-Goose (so named because I'll go though them like grass through a goose).

MAs. How do I live thee, let me count the ways...
1) multiple attacks.
2) ZOC.
3) The ability to strike at ther third sector deep in the enemy culture zone (take advantage of the corner strikes. Wanna defend your civ in the ME, find a way to defend the corners).
4) The absolutely devastating firepower that will go though anything short of MechInf like it isn't even there, even in metropoli).
5) Did I mention multiple attacks? A tank on guard duty can strike at three fools dumb enough to walk into railroad range, or two fools and still have mobility to go back to a barrackstown.
6) The only thing that defends better than MA is MI.

In 1.17 and earlier, I would hold off on "the manifest destiny war" until the very end. Sure, I'd pick off the easy targets, but after digesting two other Civs you have 30-50 cities which are hindered by corruption. So I'd wait for tanks, build like crazy, beeline for MA, upgrade, and two turns later the continent was mine, except for mopping-up actions. Add in a troop transport or two, hop over to the next continent, and rush-build an airport and the next continent is mine, too.

	24-06-2002 09:06									#5
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Ohmigod, I forgot to mention ZOC...

Forward position into Bab territory: All of the counter-attack had to pass by me, and the ZOC damage was awesome. I went to the kitchen for a sandwich, it took so long.

Of the best stack that Hammy could throw at me, 80+% had been impaired.

'The horror.'

	24-06-2002 11:42									#6
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You think MA and infantry on a hill is unstoppable? I landed an army of MI (4x with Pentagon), about a dozen more MI, an army of MA, and another dozen or so MA, on a mountain, in Persian territory. After weathering a few pitiful MI assaults, I sent my MA to swipe a city on a hill.

Over the next three turns, the Persians sent over a HUNDRED infantry and mech infantry (for some reason they had no tanks... and they hadn't gotten to MA yet) to assault my captured city. The first assault was brutal, costing me about 4-5 MI, but the rest weathered the assault long enough for me to throw up a barracks.

...lemme tell ya. Barracks + 2 MI armies (I got a leader but couldn't move him anywhere... might as well
), and all the MA you can load up, and any city is UNTOUCHABLE. Period. They'll never take it. They'll throw EVERYTHING at it, and it will never, ever fall.

Want more modern fun, you say? Go for Robotics. No, not for RA. For manufacturing plants. Factory + Nuke Plant + Manufacturing Plant = 1 turn MA (in some cities)! But alas, all those MA are being produced in the core empire, not the besieged beachhead city! No sweat! Rush an airport in the city in question (make sure the producing cities each have an airport), and airlift a dozen units into the city - every turn! The modern warfare paradigm is all about NOT allowing any city to fall/be established on your territory. The minute a single airport goes up, EVERY city in your core empire is just a SHIFT-T away... isn't that sweet?

STILL not having fun? Use those dozens upon dozens of MA to start a blitzing chain - just leave the railroads intact and take city after city - DAMN THE FLIPS, you don't need it longer than one turn! Blitz, steal the city, railroad hop, blitz some more. The only limit is pure, brutal force limitations!

Sick of MI stifling your MA invasion? ICBMs are your friend! Half the time, if you declare war properly and only drop Da Bomb in enemy territory (i.e., no spillover), nobody will really COMPLAIN (would you complain if somebody outnumbered you, was steamrolling over a rival civ, and had nuclear sticks aplenty?). Waltz into those cities with ease and enjoy the ride!

Well, well... you're *still* not happy? After all of that? How about you conquer the world in one turn? That's right, the whole world. How do you manage that? No sweat, compadre! Just play nice enough to get ROP agreements with everybody else on the planet and park your happy, friendly MA outside every other city. When you feel sufficient numbers are in place, crush the whole of the world, capturing every city that doesn't fight you off. Domination is assured!

I have a save of this. It's a low-level game (warlord I think?), but it's truly sickening. Three to five MA per city on the central continent. All you have to do is attack, and you win a Domination victory two turns later, flips and all. Just need to find the save...

	24-06-2002 12:56									#7
	Re: Fun and Games with Modern Armor Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Theseus The rape, pillage, and dastardly destruction of a Roman people, far in ancient history. The Egyptians, soldier and civilian alike, reveled in their ancient martial past, and held strange, arcane rituals celebrating the fall of Rome, and the ancient heroes Ramses and Cheops.

You have a future as a writer of fiction.

	24-06-2002 13:45									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't think researching rocketry was a bad idea. MA require aluminum and you have to have rocketry to be able to see aluminum, I think.

	24-06-2002 19:24									#9
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I love Modern Armor. I haven't used them, however, since before the 1.21 patch came out. Since going warmonger, my games haven't lasted that long.

The key is getting MA before the AI has MI.

Seriously, though. MA chews through Infantry much like Knights (or equivalent) through spearmen. We all know that's not a fair fight. MI, however, is much tougher. Especially since it prevents retreat.

I'm amused Theseus. We each took a beating in the Emperor mini tourney, so we got our pride back by unleashing hell upon poor, unsuspecting Monarch. I continue to play around with China (two games going. One at home, one at my girlfriend's place). Both started a targetted archer strike. The second is the more powerful, due to the free settler from hut I got, and the GL I got from my early archer war. Heh. Archer army (which, upon first combat, dropped to 1hp before finally defeating the regular spearman inside London). I finally managed to have a Chinese GA while NOT a despot - I beelined for Monarchy and bit the bullet early on, figuring I'd be a Monarch for a long time. Oh, how true. I've entered the mop up phase: Japan and India have 1 city each, England has 4, and France has an island off the main continent, probably 10 cities. Caravels loading Riders and Elite horsemen now...

Though I hate not being religious, I have taken quite a liking to the Chinese. They were built for the archer rush. Absolutely built for it. Then, they have what I consider to be the best UU in the game (a 3 move knight, are you KIDDING ME?).

My girlfriend started a game as Persia (she loves them for some reason) on Regent and, as usual, got bored with it once the initial exploration and core city building was done. Unlike usual, I took over. HAH! Regent! I built and warmongered all at once! Then I quit, because I felt slightly... dirty.

-Arrian

	24-06-2002 19:52									#10
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King of Rasslin

"MA require aluminum and you have to have rocketry to be able to see aluminum, I think."

Indeed you do. I've got Murphey's Law experience as proof. Also, it's a good idea to find out you don't have aluminum before you choose to wait before attacking in order to get MA.

The research strategy rush to MA is one of the human strategies that the AI needs to match to increase enjoyment of the game. You can get MA and have the advantage of sole possession for eons.

While Arrian is undoubtedly right that this is a good way to get even after being pounded at higher difficulty levels, the real fun will come when we get to engage in MA wars with multiple AI civs at one time. You may not like your railroads as much after you watch them sequentially used to capture all your cities before you have any chance to respond.

	24-06-2002 20:43									#11
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MA is easier than ever to get now. Yes, you need Rocketry, but you can get around that easily; it's cheap, and besides, it's the free advance for Scientific civs, so you can get it yourself, or just trade for it.

Since the patch that changed the requirements for Synthetic Fibers (you no longer need Recycling), MA comes 3 techs into the modern age - 4 if you shoot for Computers first.

The weird thing is, the AI *never* goes this route first. I think Ecology is low-priority, so they delve deep into the other lines of the modern tech tree before they finally consider it worthwhile. Methinks this is a bit of a mistake...

...oh, and thumbs up to the Chinese Rider. I never thought Knights could strike so unexpectedly, but there it is!

	24-06-2002 22:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by jshelr King of Rasslin Also, it's a good idea to find out you don't have aluminum before you choose to wait before attacking in order to get MA.

Good point. I'm usually unsure of what to go after first in the modern era...rocketry, ecology or computers. The AI seems to like researching fission. Computers has the appeal of mech infantry and SETI. But infantry and tanks can hold off an AI tank assault perfectly well - I guess you don't really need mech infantry until the AI has MA. So if your plan to launch an offensive rocketry is the best first tech.

	24-06-2002 22:10									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Then, they have what I consider to be the best UU in the game (a 3 move knight, are you KIDDING ME?). -Arrian

I always forget about the rider. 3 vs. 2 moves is a huge improvement. It should let you launch much faster wars in the middle ages. I'll have to experiment with riders riding the roads the way MA rides the rails. In my last game as Germany I got bogged down in long wars against India and the Aztecs during the middle ages. I came out on top but my research fell way way behind. I managed to catch up at the begining of the modern era and was first to get computers. But that game was too close.

	24-06-2002 22:44									#14
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Carver,

Riders run rings around anything in their era. You can blitz cities deep in AI territory, send in lone Riders to "mountain hop" their way to pillage vital resources, reinforce areas far from the homefront very quickly, and get wounded units the hell outta dodge faster than an enemy can track them down.

And that's without considering the timing of the unit. It, like the Samurai and War Elephant, is perfectly timed for a Medieval golden age (which I prefer). It is also perfectly timed to reinvigorate (or salvage) a flagging horseman rush to grab your continent.

-Arrian

	24-06-2002 22:54									#15
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin I don't think researching rocketry was a bad idea. MA require aluminum and you have to have rocketry to be able to see aluminum, I think.

quote: Originally posted by jskelr Indeed you do. I've got Murphey's Law experience as proof. Also, it's a good idea to find out you don't have aluminum before you choose to wait before attacking in order to get MA.

So I see that I'm not the only one to have beelined for MA, made sure my core cities wouldn't build something on the turn Synthetic Fibers was discovered (a kind of a pre-build tactic, but without a lot of conscious planning), prepared to switch production to MA and also upgrade all those tanks to start the modern blitz, only to find that I need to "discover" aluminum first. Okay, spend several turns on Rocketry if I can't buy it, again get ready for the build switches, the upgrade fest, and the MA rush . . . and see all the pretty aluminum cans sprout up outside my borders. Tank blitz here we come.

Catt

	25-06-2002 04:36									#16
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quote: Originally posted by jshelr Also, it's a good idea to find out you don't have aluminum before you choose to wait before attacking in order to get MA.

Been there, done that. standard, regent, small continents. I played the Greeks sharing a continent with Rome. My half of the island had no rubber, no oil, and no aluminum (Caesar had all three). I should have been much, much more aggressive in the early game, but between the legions and the hoplites, the front line didn't budge through 3000 years of near-continuous warfare.

quote: While Arrian is undoubtedly right that this is a good way to get even after being pounded at higher difficulty levels, the real fun will come when we get to engage in MA wars with multiple AI civs at one time. You may not like your railroads as much after you watch them sequentially used to capture all your cities before you have any chance to respond.

That's what fortresses are all about. Stops 'em cold. I cussed up a blue streak the first time Soren's pathfinding algorithm ran a stack of 60 MA onto a (formerly) enemy (now neutral) fortress. I knew it was there and would have gone around it (but move 60 MA by hand!?!), so I reloaded the autosave.

	25-06-2002 07:49									#17
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RAs... what a waste of time.

I kinda expected the equivalent of the Lockheed Martin MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System).

Get this: Each MLRS launcher can deliver almost 8,000 munitions in less than 60 seconds at ranges exceeding 32 km. I think there's some kind of insane spread, like 20 acres.

In Iraq, they called it "steel rain."

	25-06-2002 12:07									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Nakar Gabab ...lemme tell ya. Barracks + 2 MI armies (I got a leader but couldn't move him anywhere... might as well ), and all the MA you can load up, and any city is UNTOUCHABLE. Period. They'll never take it. They'll throw EVERYTHING at it, and it will never, ever fall.

What about an ICBM?

	25-06-2002 22:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan What about an ICBM?

Only a human being would be that smart. The AI dumps troops all around the city... I doubt it'd nuke its own men.

Of course, yes, a human would calmly pull back and nuke the place to oblivion...

	25-06-2002 22:55									#20
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Travel Alone in Enemy Territory

dawidge said, "I cussed up a blue streak the first time Soren's pathfinding algorithm ran a stack of 60 MA onto a (formerly) enemy (now neutral) fortress."

He likely knows this already and is just being colorful, but I can't help remarking that you should practically never use stacked movement with MA during an invasion. If you move MA one at a time, then as soon as the first enemy city falls, you can begin to move the next MA in the stack all the way through the city and out the other side before you spend any movement points. For example, in the size 60 stack mentioned, if you plan ahead and have a little luck, you might be able to deliver 5 or 6 MA to each of 10 to twelve enemy cities on one turn. But you can't if you use stack movement and all 60 MA spend two moves just to get to city number one. I always install a new governor at first after a city falls, even if I'm going to abandon the city, just so I own the maximum number of railroad squares during my turn.

	26-06-2002 03:48									#21
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I'm not that stupid. I was shifting the entire stack to the new border to continue pressing the attack.

Move the stack as far as you can on 0 mobility cost
Attack piecemeal until the city falls
Repeat until you're all out of tanks or cities to take
Fortify the towns with the injured tanks, infantry and mechs.
Prevent culture flip with all those damned swordsmen and cavalry you haven't bothered to convert into shields, yet

	26-06-2002 23:20									#22
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It's been a while since I used modern armor (since about the time I stopped turing off SS, diplo, and cultural victories). In my current game, I reached the modern age with the game firmly in hand -- an easy diplo / ss victory / domination if I played it out. But, given the upcoming mini-tourney III (which I haven't started yet but will!) I decided to brush up on my modern era warfare -- I challenged myself to win by conquest, and not to win via diplo / cultural / spaceship / domination -- and also to do so utilizing MA just to reaquaint myself with its power.

I had truly forgotten the power of MA. Playing as Persia, one smaller continent to myself, about 3/8ths of the larger continent now mine, with Rome and Greece remaining. Rome has 10 or 11 cities. I have just researched Synthetic Fibers, and upgraded +/- 100 tanks to MA. Wanted to see if I could take Rome down in one turn and so I ready for the invasion -- Rome thoughfully sneak attacks me (very ineffectively I might add). At this point, Rome has approxiamtely 15 tanks and 40 infantry -- no MI yet.

Three-move, 24 attack MA takes all of Rome in one turn. I was of course careful to conquer and hold cities, utilizing Rome's own rail network to advance to the next town. I then abandoned all cities (except one with a wonder) before the end of the turn. Wonderful (though long) one-turn war. The threat of war weariness in my non-religious civ simply disappears.

Am currently trying the same thing against Greece -- but Greece's greater cultural strength has prevented me from taking everything in one or two turns. The Greeks seem to be presenting a stauncher defense as well (sorry NYE) due to more fortuitous city terrain-- I am losing a large number of (non-retreating) MA to veteran infantry fortified in metropoli (minimum defense of 23.5, more if on a hill / across a river).

Lots of fun (but not a lot of challenge against a significantly inferior foe ).

Catt

	27-06-2002 01:43									#23
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I'll soon be delighting in the glories of Modern Armor in MiniTourneyiii....two techs away from Modern Armor, whilst the rest of the world still sits in the Industrial Age....should be fun, and I've got what I hope is a cunning plan to eliminate all the competition in what should amount to record time....we shall see....

-=Vel=-

	27-06-2002 01:52									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx I'll soon be delighting in the glories of Modern Armor in MiniTourneyiii....two techs away from Modern Armor, whilst the rest of the world still sits in the Industrial Age....should be fun, and I've got what I hope is a cunning plan to eliminate all the competition in what should amount to record time....we shall see.... -=Vel=-

Did you finish MiniTourney II (Germany)? I didn't see the conclusion of your summary. And I see (or at least assume) from the MT III spoiler thread post count that several folks have already reached the industrial age in MiniTourney III -- I need to start tonight I guess.

Catt

	27-06-2002 02:00									#25
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Catt,

I haven't started yet either, so we two will be bringing up the rear.

I have another game I want to finish before starting TourneyIII.

-Arrian

	27-06-2002 02:07									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

Nope.....have not finished it yet, OMG that's a grind of a game at this point! My turns are taking something like twenty minutes a pop....I'm in a pretty dominant position, but decided to do it at a more leisurely pace, getting a few turns in when I can, since they're taking so long....this one's going a good deal more quickly since there are fewer civs left alive, and my rivals are a good deal smaller....my OWN micromanagement is still taking a long time, but that's cos I hate to turn my workers over to the AI.....



-=Vel=-

	27-06-2002 03:17									#27
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What's the best part about MA? The enemy has RAILROADS.

This means that provided that one can cross the border and still attack (less than 1000 culture for the city if attacking from the weak point), the whole rail network will fall.

I've only done this on emp, but I wiped a civ off a huge map in four turns. Their cities were packed so close together so that my 40 MA could steamroll through their territory. Once the first city was captured, their rail lines allowed me to move close to their next city and attack. Their capital, which was orrigionally 20 squares from the front, was razed in the first turn.

Even if the enemy only has roads, razing cities will provide the necessary workers to create a rail line. In the modern era, it takes only 6 workers to make a non-industrious civ build a railroad where a road already exists. Just have a few "combat settlers" available to found the new cities/airbases/repair points.

Perhaps the AI needs to learn to blow its own roads/railroads to stop this attack, because the only defender that might slow the MA down a mountain with its movement toll.

	27-06-2002 04:47									#28
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In mini-III, I intend to capture the entire world in the one turn after upgrading to MA.

BWAHAHAHA!!!!!

	27-06-2002 18:27									#29
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I hear you! I wasn't quite that fast, but I ripped through England in all of five turns (including the time spent capturing the first city, waiting for resistance to end, rushing the airport, and air lifting MA's. Now that they're on scene, I suspect that my NEXT conquest will be significantly faster....

-=Vel=-

	23-09-2003 07:04									#30
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This is from MZOBC4.

I haven't done this in a while; Carthage was hands-down the KAI of the game... if I remember Carthage itself had 6 GWs and various SWs at this point.

I did a fairly major Tank upgrade preparatory to the attack... the stack shown is 70 strong. The two aggressor Armies shown are a 4xMA and a Tank+3xCav.

I think I had it figured that I could take down 7-8 cities at this point, MIs be damned.

And then two things happened:

1) AUSG101 came along, which has been totally engaging.

2) Carthage had settled the crap island to the SE of my beloved Scandinavia... I had set up a force of Marines and my remaining elite Berserks to take it... I had two combined Marines+Berserks Armies as part of attack...

AND THEY DON'T FRIGGIN' WORK!!! !%^!^%#$#^%!$^#%!^%()*%_(#)(#@&#&$%&@#($&@

Marine+Berserk Armies are not capable of amphibious attacks. I've been planning on this for months, across several games. This makes me VERY angry. I am purposefully not flaming ( /me takes a deep breathe).

Firaxis, please make sure to address this in C3C.

[sidenote: See the SW tip of the French continent? SPICES. I grabbed it, with fortresses and everything, and in a surprise attack Joanie came within a coupla hps of taking it from me... good gameplay]

FIX MARINE+BERSERK ARMIES!!

[and THAT goes in my sig!!]

I'm not gonna play it out, I'm so mad. But this was the first time in a while that I was so ready with an MA onslaught, especially one STARTING in the enemy's heart, I thought it was worth posting.

Attachment: mz 1980 ad ma.jpg
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