24-06-2002 15:24									#1
	Open Ministry - War Planning in Real Time Increase the size of your Attachments

Perhaps I have too much time on my hands or maybe it's just the effect of watching too much 24 (the real-time drama series set in 24 1 hour episodes), but this thread is where I will post my thoughts on the next war plan as they occur to me. This is in the hope that any and all with ANYthing to say will comment here and help me out a bit. Add your support, correct my mistakes, ask annoying questions - anything you want to say that could possibly help me out in this plan is more than welcome.

I am currently trying to take stock of what forces we have on offer, the possibility of others becoming available as they are built, rushbuying, sabotage, upcoming techs etc. etc. All this needs to be thrown at the three remaining civs - Babylon, India and Carthage.

India

-5 cities, one unknown (but strongly suspected) location.
-the Indian portion of the landmass is the easiest to attack - assuming we leave just 2 defenders per city, we have at our disposal 2 Riflemen, 11 Cavalry and 5 Diplomats. We also have another Diplomat and 4 Cavalry all to be built within 5 turns.

I will post a screenshot in a minute.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 15:32									#2
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Our available troops breakdown is as follows (exludes the defenders to be left behind):

Babar: 1 Rifle, 1 Cav, 1 Diplo
San Jacinto: 1 Cav, 1 Diplo
Bombay: 2 Cav, 2 Diplo
New Castellon: 3 Cav
Pisae: 2 Cav
Neapolis: 1 Cav
in that fortress E of Calcutta: 1 Rif, 1 Cav, 1 Diplo

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

Attachment: india.gif
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	24-06-2002 15:37									#3
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You really take this seriously, don't you?

Do you think we can put the pressure on Madras, perhaps combining some of the elements from Pisae and Bombay?

	24-06-2002 15:48									#4
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The Indians have Gunpowder (as of 13 turns ago) and are researching Metallurgy


Madras is my proposed first target - it will be open to attack from everywhere else, but it will (hopefully) mean the assault on Delhi (second proposed target) goes more easily.

Perhaps concentrating forces on one target at a time is the way to go.

	24-06-2002 15:57									#5
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Like they say in pool, if you make the easy shots first, there won't be any hard shots left at the end.

	24-06-2002 16:09									#6
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Turn 1 (1802?):

-1 Cavalry from Bombay moves W, attacks two units in square to NW - kills them.Returns to Bombay.
-1 Cavalry from Pisae moves SW and then attacks the Crusader.
-All 3 Cavalry from New Castellon move to Bombay
-Ironclad in the N moves NE and then E, resentries. This is so that the undefended approach to Citadel and Neapolis is, well, defended.
-San Jacinto Cavalry moves N onto the Silk
-Rushbuy Diplo in New Castellon for 68g (this will be used in concert with the two existing Diplos in Bombay for a sabotage attack on Madras

Now: feedback. Are three spies enough for a sabotage attack? We are two turns away from Espionage, and I guess I hope that they upgrade instantly, so that we sabotage on turn 2 (1804?)

	24-06-2002 16:09									#7
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the diplo will be spies in 2 turns , if they take out the walls then 1 cavalry will beat 1 musketteer, with walls in place you might need 3 cavalry for each musketeer, if you hit them with enough you will win out but take losses

	24-06-2002 16:10									#8
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Keep posting while you can, Mr President - even that much is good.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 16:18									#9
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Once Madras is attacked with the spies, the Cavalry will attack. We will have 5 in Bombay after moving 3 more in from New Castellon. We could perhaps move these Cavalry (minimum 3 of them to the fortress, as in the screenshot) on the turn after the spies attack (or later if we want to delay the attack until the Walls are gone).
The next turn we would attack Madras with our 3 Cav once each, retiring them to the fortress at the end of their turns. We could also then move the other 2 Cav up.

Attachment: mad1.gif
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	24-06-2002 16:23									#10
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do not wait a turn betwwen using the spies and attacking , use the spies then attack on the same turn.

	24-06-2002 16:30									#11
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Then it would be:

Turn 2:
-Newly upgraded spy from New Castellon moves to Bombay.
-Cavalry move to the fortress as I outline above

Turn 3:
-All three spies attack Madras once and return to Bombay (or get captured, one or the other ).
-Cavalry attack Madras

The only uncertain thing is how much success the spies have, and how many we are left with.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 16:41									#12
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Darn i just posted the exact war-plan in another thread. Great minds to think alike.

	24-06-2002 16:46									#13
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would it not be better to take out the capital first, its the same distance from that fort

	24-06-2002 16:50									#14
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Although it seems so obvious now, Hydey - good point. I was getting so wrapped up in a turn-by-turn account I missed that!

Thank you! This is what I was hoping for from this thread. In that case everything is the same, but with attacks on Delhi, not Madras.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 16:53									#15
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I think we should use the diplo in the fort near calcutta to sabatage production this turn in case theare building walls, easier to do that than try and get them once they are built

	24-06-2002 16:57									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Also, the diplomat with escorting Cavalry can move from San Jacinto to Delhi and attack at the same time.

A Cavalry and the third Rifleman from Babar can do likewise. In this way, all would be ready to attack on turn 3 (1806), with 4 spies causing mayhem and then 4 Cavalry (6 if we move out ALL of the Cavalry form Bombay) attacking immediately after. A Rifleman (from Babar) will be on hand to fortify the city from turn 3.

What do you think? If this is OK I'll start posting screenshots for this start of the plan.

EDIT: Hydey - even though in two turns it becomes a spy and becomes potentially more useful?

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 17:07									#17
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remember, we will be able to reuse spies... The plan sounds good

	24-06-2002 17:15									#18
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Next on the target list is either Calcutta (we already have a Rifleman, Cavalry and Diplomat in a fortress within attacking distance, we can also get three more Cavalry there at the end of turn 1) or Madras( within attacking range of any of the 4-6 possible surviving Cavalry from the assault on Delhi.

If we take Calcutta then the Indian city of Madras is almost surrounded by our cities (possibly a slightly dodgy situation, although not for long). If we take Madras then the survivng Cavalry can join the assault on Calcutta.

Once these are taken only Bangalore (further W) and the unknown location of Lahore are left. Lahore should be NW of Calcutta.

EDIT: Civman - yeeeesss, provided they aren't captured. They won't be vets.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 17:16									#19
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yes the diplo will destroy what ever they are building ,if it is wall or not, if we wait and they build walls it may take 3 or 4 non vet spies to take out the walls

	24-06-2002 17:21									#20
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we must remember not to finish building any diplo's before we get espianage, that way we will get them produced as vet spies and not diplos upgraded to non vets

	24-06-2002 17:27									#21
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Just did a quick test on an old game I had, vet spies took out walls 50% of the time (2 vets spies for each city), while non vets took out walls 20% of the time (5 spies for each city)

city on river with walls needed 4 cavalry for each musket, without walls cavalry won 50% of the battles,
we must take out the walls first.

city on plains no river with walls 2 cavalry per musket, without walls cavalry won every time.

	24-06-2002 17:32									#22
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OMIGOD I didn't realize we had Sun Tzu!

Whoops. Guess it IS pretty late.

There's only 1 diplo that I suggested rushing - in New Castellon. By waiting, there is no delay in the plan. If we time the rushbuy so that the unit is built the same turn we discover Espionage, the new spy can move (with all the other units) to the fortress between Delhi and Madras on turn 2, reaching it safely. Then turn 3 arrives and we attack as normal. Brilliant!


If we rushbuy the turn BEFORE we get Espionage, do you think the diplo will build BEFORE the discovery or AFTER? We want AFTER, that way the diplo becomes a spy, then isbuilt as a vet spy. Sheesh! Complex.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 17:33									#23
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we have alot of troops on the old egyptian / american lands we could transport to the war zones.

	24-06-2002 17:34									#24
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Eactly right, Hydey. In fact, once we have Espy, we should produce a legion of rushed vet spies, everywhere, and ship them to the various fronts. Once we have 30 or 40 of them, I'm suggesting a strategic oedo change to Fundy so we can start churning out cavalry.

None will stand before us for long! (omigawd I'm channeling shade! )

	24-06-2002 17:36									#25
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Thanks Hydey.

In those cases, we need more spies for taking the walls out of both Madras and Calcutta. Both are on rivers, and although we don't see Calcutta as having walls, it is more than reasonable to expect they do, and at the very least they are building them.

Four cities in this warzone are building Engineers. I think there is more value in having more spies and Cavalry, thus I will see what the City Planner has to say, and see if I can get a poll going on whether we can change some of this.

EDIT: perhaps some of the troops in Amer-Egypt need to stay there - we keep getting attacked by Barbs and Thebes only barely held out last time. But we can certainly build new ones and ship 'em out.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 17:43									#26
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Over to the bab campaign, next to branden burg we have a boat with a cavalry asleep another boat and 2 cavalry in brandenburg fortified , we could use these to take babylon and akkad when the ironclads take out the defenders.

	24-06-2002 17:53									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Er, the save I have shows a Caravel with two Cavalry, Brandenburg has another Caravel, 4 Riflemen and another two Cavalry. Another Rifleman is fortified outside the city.

If we send the two Caravels over with two Riflemen and one Cavalry in one, one Rifleman and two Cavalry in the other, I think this is a fine defence force for taking Babylon and Akkad.

This is a no-brainer - continually attack these two with 'Clads until they are devoid of defense, then enter the cities with the troops from the Caravels - one for each city. A Caravel returns to Brandenburg to recover the remaining Cavalry and to transport over any future troops from there. Thus the two Bab cities can start building units immediately, with little need for any more defense.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	24-06-2002 17:56									#28
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agreed , from there we can scearch for the other cities

	24-06-2002 17:57									#29
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-The Rifleman moves back in to Brandenburg to be put into a Caravel (thus ensuring we still have two Riflemen in Brandenburg)
-The two Caravels travel to station with the 'Clads until the defense of Babylon and Akkad is no more. Then we take their cities and start cranking out more Cav/spies!

Attachment: bab1.gif
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	24-06-2002 17:58									#30
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good plan