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Jay98
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Equating Hebrew civilization with modern Israelis is absurd.
I'd agree with a Hebrew inclusion.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:20
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hi ,
 , okay , people , lets please not make this in a OT thread , now , as for history , if the Jews would not have been around , well , lets just say that we would not be where we are today , ...
now ; many of you dont know what the Jews did , that's okay , even Jews learn about themselfs every day , ...
now , Jews in history , how many know that in WWII many found refuge in Japan , .... from China , where there was a big war going on , ....
stuff like this , well it can be found everywhere , now , a Jew is someone you can find almost everywhere , in the old days , and yes even now , the provided a trade route , taxes where their idea , they told Xerxes how to collect them , how to use a library , how to pay people , ....
in history the Jew has been doing that , why , well its two folded , one , with the birth of the other faiths , they had there holiday's , the Jew works on these day's , so therefore he could provide a service , when the other's where on there religious holiday , ...
the second ; many Jews where refrained to do this or that job , one ; because of a lesser extend their faith , two ; because the culture they where in had allready skilled jobs in a certain area , ....
even today there are Jews in places like Iran , ....
yes there are poblems , but they are there .
in Morocco today more then half of the banking system is in hands of the Jews , ....
so they played a role that should put them in , just like most civ's , ....
as they are not in , well Firaxis told that we can make our own civ's , so in a way the problem is solved , ....
how-ever , we can not make the units and such , so Firaxis should put them in , ....
have a nice day
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Mikhail
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flesh.and.binary
Mar 2002
time: 23:20
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in the second XP, they'd be alright, I suppose.
just make sure that their UU is ancient. the most modern units (stealth air, modern armor, etc.) need to be something that everyone can get.
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SeferKoheleth
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They should be Religious and Commercial (Jews played a central role in Middle Age commerce, as merchants and lenders, in both the Arab and Christian worlds).
Those who say they should be "militaristic" are either just plain Jew-haters (as evidenced by the nonsensical Hitler-crack) or totally ignorant of the ancient world (the Hebrews did conquer a few neighboring peoples, but never engaged in wholesale expansion or conquest campaigns outside of Israel).
Those who discount the Hebrew influence on history either have absolutely NO idea of the importance of Hebrew moral and religious ideas in the past 4000 years.... not to mention silly things such as OUR own Alphabet, which derives from the ancient Hebrew one (the Ancient Hebrew Alphabet served as a basis for the Greek Alphabet, which in turn became the Latin Alphabet-- ironically, the Modern Hebrew Alphabet is actually Bablyonian Aramaic)-- Alphabet for Aleph Bet. While some Jew-haters dispute this and claim the origin is Greek, one need only compare the Greek and Hebrew alphabets to see which came first. In Hebrew, "Bet" means house. In Greek "Beta" means nothing. In Hebrew, "Gimmal" means camel. In Greek, "Gamma" means nothing. In Hebrew, "Dalet" means door. In Greek, Delta means nothing. Need further proof as to which came first, and who borrowed from who?
Their Unique Unit should be the Maccabee, which would be an upgraded archer. Like the Archer, it would have a standard 3 attack points. However, INSIDE Hebrew territory it would have 5 attack points-- simulating Hebrew survival and resistance to Assyrian, Egyptian, Bablyonian, Greek, and Roman occupation.
The leader should be Soloman.
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Kingof the Apes
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Call me KOTA
Feb 2002
time: 21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SeferKoheleth
They should be Religious and Commercial (Jews played a central role in Middle Age commerce, as merchants and lenders, in both the Arab and Christian worlds). |
That is a good idea.
quote:
Those who say they should be "militaristic" are either just plain Jew-haters (as evidenced by the nonsensical Hitler-crack) or totally ignorant of the ancient world (the Hebrews did conquer a few neighboring peoples, but never engaged in wholesale expansion or conquest campaigns outside of Israel). |
lol, I am not a Jew hater; most of my close friends are Jewish. My view on them being militaristic was that they fought a LOT of wars in the Old Testament,and also after 1948 when they have almost constantly been at war with their surrounding countries.
quote:
Their Unique Unit should be the Maccabee, which would be an upgraded archer. Like the Archer, it would have a standard 3 attack points. However, INSIDE Hebrew territory it would have 5 attack points-- simulating Hebrew survival and resistance to Assyrian, Egyptian, Bablyonian, Greek, and Roman occupation.
The leader should be Soloman. |
An archer with three attack would be good. I dont think the 5 attack would work well, because It would be invincible on attack until the Middle Ages.
Their leader should be David.
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sabrewolf
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turicum, helvetistan
Jun 2002
time: 06:20
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i don't think neither firaxis nor infogrames will decide to put in the hebrew. ofcourse, the religious influence on the world was enormouse, but the decision would be waaaaayyyy too political. it such critical times as a game designer, you cannot put in something like that.
for the same reason hitler and stalin didn't make it to be leaders. it's all about being politically correct.... am i right?
btw: zulu's made it in because there would otherwise be no other (non-mediterranian) african civ. spain and the dutch not, because europe would be even more overcrowded on the world map (england, france, germany, rome, greece and russia).
now in XP1 (PTW) there'll be celts (or vikings?) and spain in too... and maybe more?
from geographical point of view, we need more on the
- american continents: indios (south), maya (northern part of south america), aztecs (central america and mexico), iroquois and/or sioux and maybe the inuit (canada, alaska)
- african continent: my ethnic knowledge of africa is miserable, but some nation in the region of nigeria and something down in south africa.
- australia: hey, australia as starting location would HEAVEN on big maps because it's easy to defend and big enough (british isles are way too small for >2 cities).
- something in middle asian region (around kazakhstan maybe)
europe has plenty,
eastern-asia too (china, india, japan, new: mongols),
middle east also (egypt, bablylon, turkey, persia, greece is near too)
so even if hebrew should be in... from geographical reasons, there is no need... au contraire! and because of the present situation anyway not...
but all of you are free to use the editor  UU's will be around soon...
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Verto
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quote:
Originally posted by sabrewolf
for the same reason hitler and stalin didn't make it to be leaders. it's all about being politically correct.... am i right?
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They might have been excluded due to the fact that Hitler ruled for a relatively short period of time, as did Stalin.
True, Stalin's purges and Hitler's master race scheme might have had something to do with their being left out...
quote:
from geographical point of view, we need more on the
- american continents: indios (south), maya (northern part of south america), aztecs (central america and mexico), iroquois and/or sioux and maybe the inuit (canada, alaska)
- african continent: my ethnic knowledge of africa is miserable, but some nation in the region of nigeria and something down in south africa.
- australia: hey, australia as starting location would HEAVEN on big maps because it's easy to defend and big enough (british isles are way too small for >2 cities).
- something in middle asian region (around kazakhstan maybe) |
The reason these civilizations were left out was probably because they had a relatively small impact on world history.
As for Hebrews, I agree that Israelites might be a better term. Religious and Militaristic(if the Old Testament was made into a movie, it would be R...)Leader and GLs? Moses , Solomon, David, Aaron, etc. I'd have to go get the Bible to continue the list.
UU? Slingshot guy or archer. Prophet?
Wonders? Ten Commandments, Law of Moses - decrease corruption.
I can see the religious/political repercussions, maybe what kept The Powers from putting it in the XP.
I'm sure we'll have Hebrew/Israelite mods, probably even Catholic, Baptist and Mormon mods. (Hehe, Mormon UU: Missionaries, cause cities to defect...Wonder: Nauvoo Temple...hm....)
I'm beginning to ramble OT, so I'll go join Homer in eating mayonnaise...
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sabrewolf
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turicum, helvetistan
Jun 2002
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
They might have been excluded due to the fact that Hitler ruled for a relatively short period of time, as did Stalin.
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what do you consider as long? jeanne d'arc never ruled france at all (just some troups) and is in the game.
btw: hitler came to power in 1933 and dominated until 1945. that's 12 years of ruling with (one of) the biggest impact in last centurie's history. before that he had quite a lot of power with his civil army (SS, SA)
stalin in fact ruled even longer: 1924 to 1954... 30 years!!! probably older than jeanne d'arc even was
quote:
The reason these civilizations were left out was probably because they had a relatively small impact on world history. |
of course... i was just saying it for the purpose of geographical spread... the inuit, kasakhs, indios, etc. had very little impact (afaik)
quote:
As for Hebrews, I agree that Israelites might be a better term. Religious and Militaristic(if the Old Testament was made into a movie, it would be R...)Leader and GLs? Moses , Solomon, David, Aaron, etc. I'd have to go get the Bible to continue the list. |
i agree with thouse traits. scientific (some proposed) is only quite a new "real life" trait.
quote:
Wonders? Ten Commandments, Law of Moses - decrease corruption. |
Worders? Why wonders? No civ has own wonders...
quote:
I'm sure we'll have Hebrew/Israelite mods, probably even Catholic, Baptist and Mormon mods. (Hehe, Mormon UU: Missionaries, cause cities to defect...Wonder: Nauvoo Temple...hm....) |
oh, these UUs could be fun: add to population, convert people into highly religious ones and when 50% are strong believers: loose all tech but have temples, synagoges, mosques, churches, etc. for free 
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SeferKoheleth
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. President
The Old Testament is considered literature by Jews, not truth.
I find it quite strange to assign civilizations traits, since there's an extremely good chance that the people in question would not agree with what you assigned them . . . |
That's mostly wrong. Reform and Conservative Jews believe the Bible to be a mixture of history, myth, poetry, and literature. Most Reform and Conservative Jews, for example, acknowlege the history of the later kings, Ezra and Nehemia as truth, while questioning events such as the Exodus.
Orthodox and traditional Jews (a 10% minority in the present-day US, but clearly a majority in Jewish history, and probably about 40% of Jews worldwide today) accept the entire "Old Testement" as truth, with the exception of books such as Job and Daniel, about which there is some debate.
While the Bible portrays the Israelites as militaristic, it their actual period of conquest wasn't very long. Keep in mind that in antiquity, the Israelites were far from being considered "militaristic"-- unlike the Greeks or Romans or Babylonians or Assyrians or Egyptians the Israelities never conquered large tracts of land or subjugated massive numbers of people- only small tribes such as Edom and the Phillistines.
Consequently, religious and commercial make the best match.
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27-06-2002 22:12
it should be 30/24/4 , .....
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