25-06-2002 09:23									#1
	attn Firaxis: Petition for the Hebrews Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I just read that the Hebrews did not make the first expansion pack but that they are contenders for the next. I would like to express my strong personal support for the Hebrews as a new civilization. Please make them Religious (no-brainer) and Scientific. This will give me an option for this combination other than the Babylonians. Now, what their special unit will be I'm afraid I know too little history to even begin to guess, but I suspect it would have to be an ancient unit. If the "smaller" civilizations like the Celts etc. are being considered and chosen there is an obligation in my opinion to include the Hebrews. They have had an unmeasurable influence on much of the world through their faith in ways that compare to the influence of the "big" Civs. Also, for a small fraction of the world population they continue to have a high profile and role on the world stage even today. (My affiliation with the Hebrews is through Christian faith and not birth). Thanks.

	25-06-2002 11:05									#2
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Sounds good, but wouldn't militaristic be more realistic than scientific? If you read the old Testament they were pretty warlike.

UU hmmmm...

	25-06-2002 11:28									#3
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Ark?

Religious and militarisic is much more Hebrew-like.

I have a few more civs that I'd prefer over the Hebrews, though.

	25-06-2002 13:01									#4
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I add my voice in agreement with Thinker. if you decided already to put in small but inflencial civs (like vikings and zulus) then the hebrews are a must in the second expansion. not to mention that they'll be great for the arabs vs israelis senarios and a joy for all those who dislike them to defeat.as for properties scientific and relig are good enough and fit best (all civs were militeristic in their past)

Last edited by dovlvn on 25-06-2002 at 13:07

	25-06-2002 13:05									#5
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oh and a good UU would be slingshot thrower (Remember david vs Goliath?) comes with warrior with stats like 2/1/1 or 3/1/1

	25-06-2002 13:06									#6
	one jumps where the sky scrapes Remove this text

I think the Hebrews should have been one of the original civs in civ3. They helped shape early history. The Hebrew culture is responsible for helping in the creation of the Quran (which started circulating around 625 AD; it was part culture; part reaction to Hebrews; heavily influenced by Hebrew scripture) and Christianity.

Their ruler could be solomon (Built great temples, falsly credited with scipture found in Bible) or David (first great ruler, even if he didnt build great cities as archeological evidence- which means fragments of pottery- suggests) Both rulers enjoyed rule over roughly the same area.

they could be religious and expansionist/militaristic

One more note: the Hebrew culture has outlasted most other cultures in the world. They may possibly be the most infuential culture in the world (next to the Greeks).

	25-06-2002 13:22									#7
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Learn the history of why modern day people think the way we think and you will see just how important hebrews are

	25-06-2002 13:52									#8
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Two Hebrew wonders of the world:

Salomon's Court decreases corruption
The Ten Commandments improves culture flipping odds

	25-06-2002 14:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah Two Hebrew wonders of the world: Salomon's Court decreases corruption The Ten Commandments improves culture flipping odds

Wouldn't the ten commandments also decrease corruption (or possibly increase it? )

	25-06-2002 18:48									#10
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Good idea, consider me a signee on this petition.
I would make them Religious, Commericial though personally.

	25-06-2002 19:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Wouldn't the ten commandments also decrease corruption?

Maybe if they were obeyed ... nah

	25-06-2002 19:41									#12
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Quit asking Firaxis to make them and make them yourself. I'll be happy to download them and play with them in my game. If the new editor allows us to add civs into the game, which I beleive it will, it doesn't matter who is in PTW.

	26-06-2002 01:29									#13
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The Code of Hammurabi (Or Hammy-Rabies in my games ) is much better than the 10 Commandmants. Not only was it the first code of laws, it introduced radical new ways of thinkings (eye for eye!).

I don't think we need any more corruption decreasing structures now, since it's so tame.

	26-06-2002 08:03									#14
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I too would like to see a Hebrew civ. Rel and commercial seem most appropraite. The uu has to be very ancient, or very modern!

	26-06-2002 09:20									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great Ark?

Yes, what is it?

Anyways, it's a little late, Firaxis has allready said (somewere) that the civs they've got are the ones that are going to be in. period. Not that I have anything against jews, but why deny facts?

	26-06-2002 20:11									#16
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If FIRAXIS put Hebrews in the game, I want Crown of Aragon too! We're 11 millions and our territory is 5 times Israel.

	26-06-2002 20:12									#17
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I would prefer a Palestinian civ for the next XP.

I'd also love to see a decent solution for the Palestinian people in real life, but ...

let's start giving them something already, because they're getting none in their home country.

That's all I have to say about this one. Don't attempt to 'discuss' this post by defending Israel's politics.

We differ in that one.

AJ

	26-06-2002 20:30									#18
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Ah ha, yes, but there is a major difference between the Code of Hammurabi and the Ten Commandments...that is: The Code of Hammurabi wasn't written up by God.

Anyway, the Hebrews should be 1) Religious, 2) Militaristic. The UU should be something like a sling-man...perhaps a unit that comes from the start, and like the Conquistador, doesn't replace anything.

	26-06-2002 20:32									#19
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Hmmm...Palestine...Militaristic and...Militaristic. Special Unit: The Suicide Bomber. Leader: Yasir Arafat. Capital...ummm...it changes periodically.

	26-06-2002 22:09									#20
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If the Hebrews were ever to be in this expansion pack, they would have to be militaristic. While you're at it, why not have Hitler (oops I mean Ariel Sharon, but whats the difference) as the leader.

	26-06-2002 23:34									#21
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Good idea, consider me a signee on this petition. I would make them Religious, Commericial though personally.

hi ,



, maybe we are able to make them in the new editor , .....

all what would be needed now is a bigger map , ...

have a nice day

	27-06-2002 00:49									#22
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yes, bigger map, more civs on the board
slows down the game unless you have state of the art computer

	27-06-2002 00:57									#23
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quote: Originally posted by SomeOneElse yes, bigger map, more civs on the board slows down the game unless you have state of the art computer

hi ,

, "turnless" mode , .....

but then again , for 32 civ's , a slower turn is worth the waiting

have a nice day

	27-06-2002 01:38									#24
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I don't think that they should include Hebrews as a civ. I think it causes too much political tension and I think that there are many other civs who are more worthy of inclusion.

I do like their possible additions of wonders however.

	27-06-2002 02:15									#25
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Whereas the inclusion of America, Russia, Germany, Japan etc. ... and now perhaps Arabia, Turkey, Spain, Mongolia causes no political tension whatsoever

Yes, there are some civs that I'd put ahead of the Hebrews (the Dutch come to mind - and they produced some Wonders, too), but the Hebrew civilization wouldn't be out of place in the second expansion pack.

	27-06-2002 02:27									#26
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hi ,

we shall all be happy with the new editor , in there we can make our own , ....

this shall be nice and

in there we can do almost what we want , ......

have a nice day

	27-06-2002 10:07									#27
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I also add my vote for the Hebrews. They have a good modern armor, which I have seen done up on one of the sites.

	27-06-2002 10:42									#28
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i don't mind adding the hebrews. but as for how influential they are to the modern world, second, after the greeks... i think you mean just the western world?
about a few billion in asia didn't really have that much influence from the greeks or the hebrews until recently, you know? and even now, that influence? not so great...

	27-06-2002 18:14									#29
	Re: Palestinians deserve it more Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR let's start giving them something already, because they're getting none in their home country.

Oh, that could be the start of peace in the Middle East. Sorry, couldn't resist.

	27-06-2002 20:26									#30
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The Hebrews, through Christianity, have had tremendous influence everywhere on Earth, and especially today in Asia and China, where it had been strong in from 400 to 900 AD until it was outlawed by the Emperors. I would say that the influence of the Hebrews, through Christianity and the Good Book alone, matches if not overcomes the influence of the Greeks.