29-06-2002 21:09									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Fraze Like The United States of America for instance

The alternative could be "Some United States of America" or "A few Netherlands". Would that be appropriate?

	29-06-2002 22:33									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Yeah, whats the deal with that. Wasn't "The Netherlands" once called Holland or something. Its just I've heard it refered to as Holland before, and I'm pretty sure they weren't talking about a province in "The Netherlands". I shall forever be suspicious of a country that puts "The" in their name though.

Holland is just one of the provinces of The Netherlands. It's similar to saying England in a general way, even though that's only one area of the United Kingdom, along with Scotland and Wales. Many people use that name to refer to the entire country.

	29-06-2002 23:15									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Yeah, whats the deal with that. Wasn't "The Netherlands" once called Holland or something. Its just I've heard it refered to as Holland before, and I'm pretty sure they weren't talking about a province in "The Netherlands". I shall forever be suspicious of a country that puts "The" in their name though.

In Hong Kong there's no such thing as The Netherlands and even the Chinese translation is from Holland...

now i'm confoosed...

spicytimothy

	29-06-2002 23:33									#64
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NY was first build as "Hoboken"
that is a small village in belgium , Europe

	29-06-2002 23:47									#65
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The Netherlands is the official name of the country and Holland consist of the two provinces North and South Holland. Next to these two provinces, there are 10 other provinces, but North and South Holland form the political and economical center of The Netherlands (to the Dutch members at Poly: Please correct me, if I'm wrong, I'm just a stupid foreigner). That might explain why people often refer to Holland. I noticed even that Dutch people do that, especially if they talk to foreigners, because they know that most people think that Holland is the name of the country.

	29-06-2002 23:52									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Holland is just one of the provinces of The Netherlands. It's similar to saying England in a general way, even though that's only one area of the United Kingdom, along with Scotland and Wales. Many people use that name to refer to the entire country.

Make no mistake, England Scotland and Wales are all separate countries all governed by the United Kingdom.

Recently a process of 'devolution' has taken place whereby both Scotland and Wales have gained more power to govern themselves with the Scottish parliament and the Welsh National assembly.

If you referred to the Welsh or Scots as English they would take offence, and they often do! My Dad is Scottish my mum English so I’m somewhat caught in the crossfire but lets just say there is not total harmony on the isle of Briton.

	29-06-2002 23:53									#67
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I see. So the Netherlands were never called Holland, Holland has just alway been a major part of the Netherlands so people often refer to the country as Holland. Willem's analogy to people refering to Great Britain as England I guess makes perfect since.

Kman

P.S. I swear, I've almost learned more new things about Europe on Apolyton than I have abou civ...

	29-06-2002 23:57									#68
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quote: [SIZE=1] I noticed even that Dutch people do that, especially if they talk to foreigners, because they know that most people think that Holland is the name of the country.

There is absolutely nooooooo way either a Scotsman or a Welshman would call themselves English. they would rather poke themselves in the eye, really hard!

I just can't emphasise this enough, the American lady tourist visiting Edinburgh and saying 'I love these English Castles' is a figure of scorn, fun and popular joke!

	30-06-2002 00:22									#69
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Well, Fraze, as you already pointed out: England, Scotland and Wales are separate countries, whereas the Dutch provinces all belong to one country. Maybe that's why the Dutch still insist on the difference, but don't take it as serious.

And Kman, I'm sure I could learn as much about the States and America (I know the difference...)

	30-06-2002 00:22									#70
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Uh...New York WAS a British city for what, 100 years? No problem having it be in either civilizations city list...

Venger

	30-06-2002 00:51									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Lucilla The Netherlands is the official name of the country and Holland consist of the two provinces North and South Holland. Next to these two provinces, there are 10 other provinces, but North and South Holland form the political and economical center of The Netherlands (to the Dutch members at Poly: Please correct me, if I'm wrong, I'm just a stupid foreigner). That might explain why people often refer to Holland. I noticed even that Dutch people do that, especially if they talk to foreigners, because they know that most people think that Holland is the name of the country.

Thanks for the clarification. I felt a bit embarrassed trying to explain it, since I was born a Dutchman and should know better. But having been raised in Canada since I was just a toddler, I wasn't exactly sure how it worked exactly. And it's been awhile since I've looked into Dutch history etc.

	30-06-2002 01:05									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Fraze Make no mistake, England Scotland and Wales are all separate countries all governed by the United Kingdom. Recently a process of 'devolution' has taken place whereby both Scotland and Wales have gained more power to govern themselves with the Scottish parliament and the Welsh National assembly. If you referred to the Welsh or Scots as English they would take offence, and they often do! My Dad is Scottish my mum English so I’m somewhat caught in the crossfire but lets just say there is not total harmony on the isle of Briton.

Yes I realize this, but for the time being at least, most of the world thinks of the entire British Isles if someone mentions the term English as a people. We have a similar situation here in Canada with Quebec. Many of the French speaking population who live there consider themselves "Quebecois", whereas to the rest of the world, they're still just "Canadians". Fortunately for the Dutch, they just take it in stride having their country called Holland. It doesn't stir up any ethnic hostilities or antagonisms.

PS And I'm sure the Basque wouldn't be very pleased at being called Spanish by some tourist. Or a Kurd being considered a Turk.