25-06-2002 19:57									#1
	War Academy: Worker Gambit Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Should we bring along a worker or two with our attack force? If we leave them where the AI could get them, we could draw troops out into the open and kill them more easily. What do you think?

	25-06-2002 20:03									#2
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at the moment, we need workers at home. however, our first attack could be to take a french worker, which we could use.

	25-06-2002 20:03									#3
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I think we should bring a few workers along. Workers are easier to replace then units and if bringing a worker along will make the job easier on our troops then lets do it.

	25-06-2002 20:07									#4
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I agree with jdd2007 on this issue. The French are likely to have workers of their own.

The problem would be capturing one, since it's likely they're well inside French territory (possibly right next to Paris). Still, anything that delays a counteroffensive on the part of the French helps us out...

We could bring along one of our own workers, just in case we can't capture one of theirs. If they take our worker, we can recapture it later.

	25-06-2002 20:09									#5
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Will the AI always take the bait?

Ex. if Paris has 1 spear, 1 warr and we have a stack of 3 archers outside plus one worker on a tile of its own, will the AI send the warrior to take the worker, even though the 3 archers should be the concern?

	25-06-2002 20:10									#6
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I also agree with jdd2007. Our workers are too valuable, each of them represents a pop point and we haven't much fertile land to spare. However, we could capture a French worker and use it to lure the enemy forces.

Btw: I don't think it will be necessary.

	25-06-2002 20:12									#7
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I thinkluring the AI with workers is cheating.

	25-06-2002 21:13									#8
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cheating??? its a strategy!!! people have been setting traps and ambuses since wars began!!! unless we put in a cheat code or make use of a bug, then its not cheating...

	25-06-2002 21:17									#9
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Hm, I don't think it would be cheating either. This is WAR, there are no rules, use whatever you can. However, like Ralph said, I really don't think it will be needed. Perhaps. We will have to see what kind of opposition there is in the second city.

	25-06-2002 21:34									#10
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I also don't think they will be need. We do have a large jungle to clear ourselves. If we do move one up, at least start him early on auto-road-build so that our forces can get to the front earlier.

Best bet is to capture one. Perhaps as our first or second objective. So much depends on what we find there when we know where there is.

	25-06-2002 21:35									#11
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I understand we are going to raze the second city, correct? so if we attack the second city first we can use the workers that were the citezens to lre troops out of Paris. No need to risk our own.

	25-06-2002 21:40									#12
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chances are we'll capture some french workers or bump into another settler stack by the time we attack. im sure the slaves will be glad to build a road for us.

i do believe that we should have our workers at home begin to clear / mine some tiles around our "new" city spots.

in that process, the beginnings of a road could be built

	25-06-2002 22:04									#13
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quote: I also agree with jdd2007. Our workers are too valuable, each of them represents a pop point and we haven't much fertile land to spare.

I agree

	25-06-2002 22:09									#14
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I'm with them. We can always build a road/improvements after we defeat the French. Even as bait, they're more valuable than military units because they = 1 population. Besides, our armies should do fine as it is.

	25-06-2002 22:10									#15
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quote: I understand we are going to raze the second city, correct? so if we attack the second city first we can use the workers that were the citezens to lre troops out of Paris. No need to risk our own.

Well, if there is a chance to capture the second city, we will gladly keep it. Most likely it will autoraze, leaving nothing. We must also direct our first attack at Paris lest they manage to build a defense. If we attack a second city first, that gives Paris a few turns to rush some units.

	25-06-2002 23:40									#16
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One worker would be gone for at most 30 turns - more likely 20-25.

	26-06-2002 02:23									#17
	Re: War Academy: Worker Gambit Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Should we bring along a worker or two with our attack force? If we leave them where the AI could get them, we could draw troops out into the open and kill them more easily. What do you think?

hi ,

it could work , even if the French have workers of there own , ...

however , will they let themselfs drawn in to a good terrain , ... , UberKruX could come up with a nice plan .

have a nice day

	26-06-2002 02:30									#18
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 at the moment, we need workers at home. however, our first attack could be to take a french worker, which we could use.

I agree with this. Our workers need to be improving our land. Let our soldiers go to war, leave the workers at home.

	26-06-2002 05:29									#19
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I agree with jdd

	26-06-2002 07:32									#20
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Aren't all workers under the minister of public works? What does the Minister have to say?

Personally, i agree with the notion that it's no time to be wasting our valuable, industrious workers.

	26-06-2002 11:36									#21
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I say we don't bring any workers with the initial strike group.

First of all, our workers are valuable and we need them elsewhere.
Second, the baiting and waiting would probably delay our advance a bit and therefore could give the enemy time to produce more units...

If, however, we capture some of their workers, we should happily put them to work right in the middle of the war zone and see what opportunities may arise...

	26-06-2002 16:46									#22
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How exactly does this baiting work and how would we implement.
This is of course assuming that we decide to sacrifice the improvements our own workers could make or capture one of theirs.

	26-06-2002 17:22									#23
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there a risk of recaptured workers escaping to other French cities.

	26-06-2002 18:03									#24
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Not likely. They try to escape in the closest city. This is mostly the city they are actually working for.

Again, exploit or not, I don't think it's necessary. We'll win without it.

	26-06-2002 19:06									#25
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 cheating??? its a strategy!!! people have been setting traps and ambuses since wars began!!! unless we put in a cheat code or make use of a bug, then its not cheating...

IT's not a strategy when you are taking advantage of an AI that can't figure out what you're doing. This would never ever work on a human who had a minimal knowledge of the game and strategy.

	26-06-2002 19:11									#26
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As has been said before, our workers are needed elsewhere.

	26-06-2002 19:13									#27
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 IT's not a strategy when you are taking advantage of an AI that can't figure out what you're doing. This would never ever work on a human who had a minimal knowledge of the game and strategy.

-Unless, of course, the man in charge (*cough* Hitler... *cough* *cough* skywalker... *cough*) gets so caught up in his brilliant tactical moves that he loses sight of the big picture and happily runs off to ruin himself...

	27-06-2002 21:08									#28
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The AI can go or not go for the bait. Cheating is too serious a word for that.
Much of history was written by people who did things "cheating" while the enemy had no idea of what it was.
But anyway, I'm against the idea. The more workers to clear this stupid jungle faster, the better.

	27-06-2002 21:15									#29
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But the leaders of those countries easily had the opportunity to be more cautious. The AI can't weigh options and decide if it's worth the risk or not... it can't even comprehend that it could possibly be a trap. One day perhaps AIs will be able to compete blow for blow with humans, but today it can't. Therefore, any strategy that takes advantage of the AI's inability deal with a particular circumstance could be considered 'cheating', or taking advantage of the situation at the very least.

	27-06-2002 22:03									#30
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But here's a point to consider: The AI, at least on the level we're playing on, cheats excessively.
But - does that mean we get to use our human strategy on it?
It's really a matter of opinion. But anyway, I think that a worker would be much more useful back home.