26-06-2002 17:02									#1
	I'm taking the quest for the Avatar Enter the AD-FREE zone

I never got very far in this before, but I'm going to do it again. some of the walkthrough notes sort of confuse me, though.

One of the virtues is to pursue your enemies when they run, and another is to let running enemies go. how is a person supposed to accomplish both?

I started life as a Paladin, since that gives me more of a chance to survive. I had started as a shepherd before and kept getting killed. is there any advantage to starting as a shepherd? come to think of it, when I pursue the path of humility, will I have to doff my armor and change class to a shepherd? ack!

	26-06-2002 17:24									#2
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I don't know about this particular game, but usually paladins tend to have rules that clearly state that they mustn't attack a helpless, sleeping or panicking enemy. I guess you're just supposed to pursue them so that you can try to convert them to the light side .

	26-06-2002 20:39									#3
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No... You have to get the mantra and pray at the shrines, and get some colored stone from teh bottom of dungeons.... And give money to beggars.

	26-06-2002 20:55									#4
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"quest for the Avatar"
when i read this title i thought you were gonna spam till 500 posts

	27-06-2002 00:09									#5
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I belive you have a Valor Vs. Compassion dilemma. That's fine, because you tend to embody some virtues more than others.

As a general rule though, if someone attacks you can defend yourself. Don't pick a fight with anyone else. If they yield to you, don't kill them anyway. If they run you can chase them.

I don't think all this matters though (were there virtue points in U4?) Just go to the shrines and pray your virtous butt off.

	27-06-2002 10:30									#6
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IIRC, virtues in Ultima were first introduced in The Quest for the Avatar.

	27-06-2002 13:42									#7
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I think the compassion/valour aspect only applies to non-monsters (spiders, rats, etc).
I don't think you actually have to let them go either as most of them would usually be dead before breaking.
If you just retreat from these combats you don't get the "You have lost" message and your compassion index increases IIRC without affecting your valour.

I didn't think you could raise your characteristics high enough by just going to the shrines?
Memory is a bit hazy though. its been a while since U4.

	27-06-2002 16:27									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

OK, I guess the jury is still out on the compassion vs. valor issue

btw, does anyone know of any other slowdown programs than moslo and turbo? Ultima Collection installed with moslo, but the game won't run with it, and I've been using turbo,a windows program, to slow the system before starting U4 without moslo. it works imperfectly, though. are there any other slowdown programs?

	27-06-2002 17:08									#9
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Moslo has always worked for me but I haven't tried to replay U4, only some of the others in the collection.

	27-06-2002 19:11									#10
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I am a big Ultima fan, have played through U4 several times.

Virtues...

Valor... don't run away in combat. You may allow enemies to flee, that doesn't hurt your valor rating.

Compassion... Give money to the beggars in the cities. Do this by talking to them and saying "GIVE". Only the beggars on their knees will accept money (there are some characters who call themselves beggars, but don't accept your money). Don't kill townspeople. You do not have to flee combat with animals (rats, snakes, etc.) You may kill them as they flee as well. Only the first two matter for your compassion rating.

Honesty... pretty obvious, don't lie in conversations and don't steal. A good place to rack up some honesty points is when you buy reagents. When you tell them how much black pearl you want, they say... "That'll be 81 gold." Then it asks... "You Pay?" You can pay any amount you like here (except 0). If you pay anything less than what the quoted price is, your honesty suffers. The reagent dealers are all blind.

Sacrifice... After reaching 3rd or 4th level, you may donate blood at healer shops, just talk to the healer and say you do not need any help. Do this often.

Honor... Gathering items (runes, stones) increases your honor. Don't attack townspeople, or steal.

Spirituality... Visit Hawkwind in LBs castle every time you go through. This boosts your spirituality.

Humility... Never say you are the best at something. Ironically, you can say you are the most humble.

Justice... Don't steal, don't attack townspeople.

Always state that you STRIVE to be the most just, valiant, honest, etc.

You will never change class. You will always be what you start as. Shepherds are the weakest class. If you find an item quickly, such as a rune, go to LB and he'll bump you up in level.

Experience is gained by killing monsters or by gathering items necessary for the quest. Only you get the experience for items, though. Your party members get it for killing the monsters.

	01-07-2002 17:01									#11
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Don't forget that when you find the Skull of Mondain, don't use it, as it reduces the points of ALL your virtues. On the same note, casting it into the volcano increases virtue points for all virtues.

	07-07-2002 18:17									#12
	Got spare money?

Valor seems to be easy enough. hawkwind says I have sufficient whatever in that to go and meditate for 3 cycles. But I can't get the darned rune! nobody in jhelom even admits the darned thing exists!

I guess I could go and qualify in one of the other virtues. hawkwind says I'm ready to go meditate for spirituality (talk to hawk a lot, that's funny how that works), and sacrifice. hope those runes aren't near as difficult to obtain.

I do have a rune and mantra I can use, but it's for compassion, and after praying there a few times it doesn't seem to have improved my standing with hawkwind in comppassion at all. maybe I can load down the beggar in britain....

	09-07-2002 19:17									#13
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Meditating does nothing for your virtue rating. It only gives you "Avatarhood" in that specific virtue when Hawkwind tells you to go to that shrine.

Rune of Valor... I could tell you where it is, but I don't want to spoil the fun. It took me forever to find that one too. HINT: Always explore every tile of every city looking for people to speak with. In other words, some people hang out behind the thick trees.

Another hint... If someone tells you to ask at a tavern about something... buy a drink and pay one extra gold, the bartender will then ask "What would ya like to know friend?" Then you ask RUNE, STONE, or whatever you were sent there to ask, and he'll implicate that his palms need greased to remember. You'll need this to find out where the Rune of Spirituality is, as well as a bunch of other items.

Enjoy.

	09-07-2002 19:19									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal Don't forget that when you find the Skull of Mondain, don't use it, as it reduces the points of ALL your virtues. On the same note, casting it into the volcano increases virtue points for all virtues.

Does the skull even do anything for you? I used it once, and all it did was say, "THOU HAST LOST AN EIGHTH!!!" eight times.

	11-07-2002 17:19									#15
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I'm starting over, since I chose valor, mistakenly thinking I would be a paladin, and became a fighter instead. bad for me! A fighter has NO magical ability, and getting occaisionally poisoned was killing me - Literally. it was getting so I didn't dare travel too far from lord british's castle for fear I wouldn't get back in time to get healed. not to mention that curing took a big chunk out of my hard earned winnings

So I started over as a paladin, based in trinsic, and am having a much better time of it.

	11-07-2002 21:59									#16
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The last game I played, I started as a shepherd. You know, for a challenge (also to give the other characters at least some chance of being past level 4 before it's Abyss time). You start next to Magincia. So, I saunter in half-expecting to die from poison. To my surprise, I traversed the entire ruin without getting poisoned.

You are allowed to have a number of party members equal to your level. So, on level 3, you may have 3 members (You, first joiner, second joiner). so, if you choose to be a fighter again, just hop in the moongate next to Jhelom and get a companion who can use magic before doing any serious adventuring. Oh, and if you can make it to him, LB will heal you for free. Just ask him HEALTH, and he'll say, "I AM WELL", then ask "ART THOU WELL?". Reply no, and he'll heal and cure you and your entire party. No ressurections though.

The best classes are Bards and Paladins, IMO. They start on level 3 and can use magic and just about any weapon or armor.

Last edited by dunk on 11-07-2002 at 22:09