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debeest
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Send settlers into their territory. Build a city there and leave it empty, if necessary.
Block their vital roads and railroads with caravans.
Repeatedly station your troops in their territory; even if you withdraw every time it's demanded, sometimes they'll get annoyed.
If you're willing to spend a turn in anarchy, follow Smash's advice and do anything you want to them, so long as you do it the turn before an Oedo year or you have SoL.
Whatever you do, you'll soon have them crawling back to you for peace, and you won't be able to say no, as long as you're in democracy sans UN. I can't tell you how often I've maneuvered myself into a position to wipe out an entire civ in one turn, but after I capture one city, an emissary from the next city I approach nips the whole thing in the bud. I've learned one very useful trick: once you get to make war, if you're going to capture cities by killing off the defenders, first beat a whole bunch of cities down to zero defenders without capturing them. THEN capture them all. That way you might get to avoid meeting an emissary.
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debeest
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Those are both useful insights, SG2. But the point of a war, I think, is to capture enemy cities, and it's hard to do that without encountering an emissary pretty soon.
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debeest
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SG[1]: The initial question was about starting a war while in democracy; I was responding to that. I think there are often good reasons to fight a war while staying in representative government. The costs of even one turn of anarchy can be so enormous that you don't want to shift back and forth between governments. Heck, if Mr. President wanted to change to fundy or commie, there'd be no need for this thread in the first place.
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debeest
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Even when SoL or good Oedo-year timing limits you to one turn of anarchy, that can still be a huge cost, especially if you're going to go to a non-rep government but want to return to a rep government. Think about how much gold and science and shields your civilization generates in that one turn, and ponder how often you want to give it all up.
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rah
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Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
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Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by La Fayette
I can't help finding that Rah has probably the most expressive avatar at Apolyton. Look at those piercing eyes, brothers! Would you dare playing MP against such a foe?
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Most of the MP players have said it looks like a very ugly transvestite feather dancer.
On-topic, with the right infrastructure, Wars aren't a problem in any government. (the only time I drop out of Demo, is when the senate gives me problems. With sol no problem, revolt for a turn, demand tribute, kill, continue.
Of without SOL, revolt (the year before an odeo year) choose any non-rep government, then go on your offensive, demand tribute, conquer cities don't worry about emissaries, make sure you contact every civ to make sure you're still at war 
Then before your turn ends, revolt again, it will let you choose demo on the spot. Now you don't have to worry about emissaries for awhile.
RAH
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debeest
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RAH: My understanding of the manual is that when you revolt and go into anarchy, you produce no trade and no shields until you restore a government. (To my shame, in spite of all the inaccuracies in the manual, I've never verified the accuracy of this point. Some things I've read here lead me to wonder whether it's true. Is it?) Supposing you've got 40 cities, averaging size 12, for 520 city squares potentially worked. How often can you exact enough tribute to make up for the loss of all the trade and shields from all those citizens? (My experience is that I almost never get tribute from anyone except an adjacent civ, and often many of the civs are not close enough.)
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rah
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Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
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Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by debeest
RAH: My understanding of the manual is that when you revolt and go into anarchy, you produce no trade and no shields until you restore a government. (To my shame, in spite of all the inaccuracies in the manual, I've never verified the accuracy of this point. Some things I've read here lead me to wonder whether it's true. Is it?) Supposing you've got 40 cities, averaging size 12, for 520 city squares potentially worked. How often can you exact enough tribute to make up for the loss of all the trade and shields from all those citizens? (My experience is that I almost never get tribute from anyone except an adjacent civ, and often many of the civs are not close enough.) |
If you let them build up their war chests by not doing it often, it can be profitable (check using an embassy and wait till they have 3000 gold). Especially if you slap them around a bit before you do it. And since your purpose of dropping out of Democracy is to bi*ch slap them, it's kind of convienent. I''ve gotten over 5K before. The Civ version you're playing does make a difference though. The Civ gold MP edition makes it less likely that the AIs will empty their coffers.
RAH
SG(1) Yes, no science but you get the food and the reduced production, not sure on the taxes, which wouldn't be much anyway. (which is why I'm not sure) I believe the manual says no taxes, but the manual has been wrong before
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27-06-2002 08:26
is always helpful, especially if the civ in question is poor. This can be arranged - if prior to forming a representative goverment you are regularly receiving tribute or best of all - large lump sums to sign cease fire agreements
I prefer not to shift governments too often since, in my experience, it causes fairly significant waste.
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