28-06-2002 03:25									#1
	Why Go To War ? Enter the AD-FREE zone

why not focus on settlers

why not explore the land first
some say its an island others say its a peninsula

is it not possible that there is more good land like plains and grassland or hills

is it not possible to sent protected settlers out and go for that land

there shall be war but why not wait a bit first to grow

	28-06-2002 03:31									#2
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We have no good space to grow in and on Emperor we have no time to waste.

	28-06-2002 03:37									#3
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notyoueither is right. We are closed in and must fight to expand.

	28-06-2002 03:39									#4
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Not to mention fighting is much more fun and interesting.

	28-06-2002 03:42									#5
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War is necessary. We will LOSE without war.

	28-06-2002 03:43									#6
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Check out my picture near the end of this thread if you think we can successfully expand peacefully anywhere near us.

	28-06-2002 03:44									#7
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If you want peace, then be prepared for war.
To truly live, be ready to die.
An apple a day, keeps the doctor away.
The French are already rubbing their grubby little hands together thinking about our land.
History is littered with senseless wars, at least ours will have a purpose.
Kill or be killed, that the name of the game.

	28-06-2002 08:04									#8
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If we secure the continent/peninsuala for ourselves, we will be free to populate it with settlers without fear of the best sites getting taken by foreign powers.

	28-06-2002 08:16									#9
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bc long term jungles are useless and we need the mts from the french so we can get the iron which unluckily is the only resource useful on the whole game

(or most of it...)

WAR

	28-06-2002 10:48									#10
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There are certain games when a builder approach is very appropriate.

This is not one.

We are tremendously disadvantaged, in many respects.

The only way to survive, effectively, is through aggression. Sorry, but it's the truth.

For the non-war members: Bad news, this is not a one time event. We will NEED to commit surgical strikes, several times, to deal with the bad start. I refer to Aeson's iceberg as an example.

A non-aggressive, builder approach has NO chance of succeeding in this game.

	28-06-2002 16:41									#11
	Re: Why Go To War ? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SABRA why not focus on settlers

Not much in the way of expansion room.

quote: why not explore the land first some say its an island others say its a peninsula

We are. I think the agreement is that it's now a peninsula (as it's pretty bloody unlikely that we'd have four civs on one island).

quote: is it not possible that there is more good land like plains and grassland or hills

Yes, but most of it is under the control of our enemies.

quote: is it not possible to sent protected settlers out and go for that land

Others would have reached it first. In that case, the only alternative is to take them by force.

quote: there shall be war but why not wait a bit first to grow

Grow where?

	28-06-2002 16:47									#12
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Even the builder party, the DIA, has admitted the need for these wars. It was discussed much and almost everyone agrees now.

	28-06-2002 21:04									#13
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if we don`t fight now we`ll be in no position to fight later, if indeed there is a later

	28-06-2002 22:57									#14
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SABRA,

The die is cast, and most have decided for it, including all the ministers and the two major parties. I attempted to elicit alternatives for our situation, and submitted a possible proposal. My proposal was rebutted quickly and thoroughly by those who support the war. No other counter proposals were presented. I am not the best of Civ'ers, so I need someone with more experience and game knowledge to come up with something. Can you come up with a counter proposal?

Otherwise, we will have to fight for a less militaristic Apolytonia after this war is over. Also, if you have already not voted Yes for a code of ethics do so as soon as possible, that is our first best hope in the quest for a peaceful society.

God save the people of Apolytonia!

I remain,

jdjdjd

	29-06-2002 00:17									#15
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Meanwhile, Jungle warriors, start sharpening your spear- and arrowheads.
(And cast your votes accordingly. That ethics poll IS important. IF you want to play with your sharp toys, you'd better make sure a constitutional amendment won't stop you.)

	29-06-2002 00:56									#16
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Our counter-proposal is this: Décès á la France!

	29-06-2002 05:21									#17
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Or, alternatively:

Gallia erit divisa in una parte-- nostra parte!

In this position, there is no choice but to go to war. If we started off in a better situation, you'd see me against war.

	29-06-2002 16:32									#18
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good old ethnic clensing! Come on! Lets secure our island land penisula and start building!

	29-06-2002 20:55									#19
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im usually more of a builder than war-monger , but in this case war is nessesary. on emperor your gonna have ai cities popping up much faster than we can produce settlers, so if you take a builder attitude than sure death will be close at hand. this war will be costly as the ai gets everything cheap so better stock up on defensive units as well as an offensive force.

	29-06-2002 22:01									#20
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hi ,

maybe its to early to go to war , we shall have war , that is sure , but first we need a strong army , ...

have a nice day

Last edited by panag on 29-06-2002 at 22:11

	29-06-2002 22:04									#21
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Panag :
This is precisely the point of "Case : Pink" project. We prepare war (whether it's the French or the Americans is not yet settled, as we don't know who has the best land). in order to storm the enemies as soon as possible, when they aren't ready but we are.

	29-06-2002 22:42									#22
	Re: Why Go To War ? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by SABRA why not focus on settlers why not explore the land first some say its an island others say its a peninsula is it not possible that there is more good land like plains and grassland or hills is it not possible to sent protected settlers out and go for that land there shall be war but why not wait a bit first to grow

the main idea for the moment should be to stay out of war for now
so that there is time and room for a veteran army to be build and to put some money in the bank so that when war breaks out and people start to be unhappy the luxury level can be put higher
and before there is a war there should be many more options covered
it would be intresting to have someone think and put here some of the options that could happen and also some more tables as to what and how so that more people can get a short oversight

	30-06-2002 00:40									#23
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Of course we're not declaring war now.

	30-06-2002 00:49									#24
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Of course we're not declaring war now.

hi ,

, you never know with some people in the government , ...........

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 00:50									#25
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(Monty Python and the Holy Grail) We live in a bloody swamp, [swamp/jungle same deal] we need all the land we can get!

War! War! War!

	30-06-2002 00:52									#26
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , , you never know with some people in the government , ........... have a nice day

whoever could you be talking about panag?

	30-06-2002 01:06									#27
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War is required. Nuff said

	30-06-2002 01:11									#28
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX whoever could you be talking about panag?

hi ,

some people who like to go to war without giving our good warriors some training in barracks , .....
and other subversive elements , .....

no , not you , ...... what made you thing so , ....

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 12:33									#29
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I never go to an early war on Emperor level and tried to stop our government from doing so this time but I am afraid it is to late now to alter the strategy. Not going to war requires a rather different approach in the early turns.

We are completely in the hands of the warmongers. Let us see where this leads us. If they succeed we will build statues for them in all of our cities. If not............

	30-06-2002 16:11									#30
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Even then we could not succeed without war. If we had started devoting our resources then to clearing the jungle then, we would have fallen even further behind the AI and our damnation would be that much more certain.