28-06-2002 11:23									#1
	I have Broken a Treaty... Suffering from ads?

Well, when you sign a military pack with a Civ and don't sent troops to help them fight, does that count as breaking a treaty?

The AI apparantly thinks it is. It is the only treaty I've signed with the Iroquis. outside of an ROP that is still in effect, but all the other AI civs is accusing me of breaking a treatying with the Iroquis...

I had, in the early game, signed a military alliance with them to fight the Japanese, their neighbour. We eventually made peace and I never sent forces to fight in the Iroquis front. That's the only thing I can think of that would qualify as breaking a treaty. This is a head scratcher right here.

	28-06-2002 11:35									#2
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Hear, hear. same thing has happened to me

I assume that you made peace after the 20 turns were up?

how about trade agreements?? broken any of those?

I'd like to know if a trade agreement is considered broken if a third party takes i.e. the only source of horses you had and were supposed to deliever to a second party for 5 more turns?? If so you could get blamed for breaking a treaty without 'actively' breaking it yourself....

if so this could explain the accusations of betrayal you are experiencing.

	28-06-2002 11:36									#3
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How do I break trade treaties?

I can't cancel them before 20 turns, and i usually just renegotiate them after the 20 turns. does cancelling a trade treaty considered broken?

	28-06-2002 12:10									#4
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Another Sid Meier's minorflaws (C) brought to you by Firaxis (tm) If you declare peace with a civ while your ally is still fighting them, your ally will help you. Sso how does an ally get out of this war without pissing the other off? Who knows. Its sure going to be fun in mp.

	28-06-2002 15:15									#5
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I think there is a bug somewhere.

In one of my last games I always got a massage like "you have broken your treaty with the greeks, how can we trust you?" although I did never ever sign a treaty with anyone in the game so far.




dexters:
If you cancel the treaty after more than 20 turns it does NOT count as broken as far as I know.

	28-06-2002 15:37									#6
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quote: How do I break trade treaties? I can't cancel them before 20 turns, and i usually just renegotiate them after the 20 turns. does cancelling a trade treaty considered broken?

What he means is, were there any trade deals that you were unable to deliver on after losing a resource?

	28-06-2002 17:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus What he means is, were there any trade deals that you were unable to deliver on after losing a resource?

I understood his question perfectly. I guess, I shoulhave responded to that first.

But the answer is no. I had 7 sources of wine, and I never did loose any.

	28-06-2002 18:29									#8
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quote: I had, in the early game, signed a military alliance with them to fight the Japanese, their neighbour. We eventually made peace and I never sent forces to fight in the Iroquis front. That's the only thing I can think of that would qualify as breaking a treaty. This is a head scratcher right here.

You signed an alliance w/the Iroquois against Japan. You made peace with Japan. Did you cancel the alliance via the diplomacy screen before making peace with Japan? If not, the alliance with the Iroquois was still in effect and you broke it by signing a peace treaty with the enemy.

-Arrian

	28-06-2002 19:56									#9
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This gets back to the problem of not being able to see the ramifications of your actions on treaties. In any instance in which a trade deal/treaty are about to be broken, your Diplomatic Advisor should warn you: "That will violate our treaty with the Iroquois... they're not gonna like that!" and give you the option to proceed or cancel. It's too easy to unknowingly violate treaties.

	28-06-2002 20:01									#10
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Stuie,

I agree with that. There should be a popup reminder.

I think Aeson had an issue where he was buying a resource from a civ which lost that resource in a war, and the AI thenceforth told him he was a dealbreaker. Now THAT qualifies as a bug.

-Arrian

	29-06-2002 00:52									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian You signed an alliance w/the Iroquois against Japan. You made peace with Japan. Did you cancel the alliance via the diplomacy screen before making peace with Japan? If not, the alliance with the Iroquois was still in effect and you broke it by signing a peace treaty with the enemy. -Arrian

I did not know that... but if this is the case, it puts unfair pressure on the player. What if, as it is often the case, THE AI Civ approachs me with a generous peace offer.

Shall I refuse it, go to diplo screen, cancel any alliances I may have (what if the 20 turns aren't up?) and then go back and hope that the Civ I'm at war with will still offer the same peace?

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me... but if you can elaborate on it I'd be glad to hear it. You probably know more about the game's mechanics than i do.

	29-06-2002 01:36									#12
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If the 20 turns aren't up, you have no choice in the matter. If you accept a peace offer, you are definately breaking the alliance, because when you signed it you said it would last at least twenty turns.

After 20 turns, you are better off deciding before hand if you will accept a peace offer or not. If you are willing to accept peace, cancel those treaties ahead of time.

That's the price you pay in CivIII for agreeing to a military alliance.

Personally, I almost always take this approach to warfare:
1) If attacked, immediately call up everyone else I know and pay anything it takes to get them into a military alliance vs the offender.
2) Do everything possible to whomp on the offending civ for 20 turns.
3) Cancel all military alliances after 20 turns, and immediately call up the offending civ for a peace treaty. Since they are typically heavily outnumbered, they will probably accept.
4) Sit back and relax while all the other civs continue the process of smacking down the offending civ for x number of turns, where x is the number that represents the number of turns until the offending civ is destroyed or the other civs get tired of beating on them.

Works a charm typically, and you keep a spotless rep, which means it's all the easier (and cheaper) to get everyone in on the plan again when the next idiot ... I mean civ ... tried to take some of your precious land.

	29-06-2002 01:43									#13
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It would be really helpful if you could get a pop-up, telling you that a treaty or trade agreement has expired, so that you could take action if you wanted to. It's annoying that you have to contact the other civs to get that information.

	29-06-2002 02:50									#14
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quote: .... It's annoying that you have to contact the other civs to get that information.

... and who is ever mindful enough to get out pen and a notepad and WRITE it down!

(I think I've done it -- once!)

	29-06-2002 04:12									#15
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quote: Originally posted by dexters I did not know that... but if this is the case, it puts unfair pressure on the player. What if, as it is often the case, THE AI Civ approachs me with a generous peace offer. Shall I refuse it, go to diplo screen, cancel any alliances I may have (what if the 20 turns aren't up?) and then go back and hope that the Civ I'm at war with will still offer the same peace? ...

Don't you HATE it when there are ramifications to whatever you do?! Way too close to reality for me, too. Makes me want to walk away from the game for a day or 2, to get over my being upset and try to figure out something constructive to do.

	29-06-2002 05:31									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Todd Hawks I think there is a bug somewhere. In one of my last games I always got a message like "you have broken your treaty with the greeks, how can we trust you?" although I did never ever sign a treaty with anyone in the game so far.

This thread bemuses me. I have repeatedly been blamed by the lying crazy AI for actions I NEVER took.

Almost as bad, the AI also blames me for thousands of years (ridiculous) for the most minor infractions. But if an AI civ allied to me makes a separate peace before the 20 turn period it never seems to take a hit.

	29-06-2002 06:37									#17
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Come on, Coracle, in multi-play, the other (human) players will hold a grudge for the entire game if you screw them over. Hell, some may hold it for more than one game. Why shouldn't the AI?

	29-06-2002 23:48									#18
	Re: I have Broken a Treaty... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by dexters Well, when you sign a military pack with a Civ and don't sent troops to help them fight, does that count as breaking a treaty? The AI apparantly thinks it is. It is the only treaty I've signed with the Iroquis. outside of an ROP that is still in effect, but all the other AI civs is accusing me of breaking a treatying with the Iroquis... I had, in the early game, signed a military alliance with them to fight the Japanese, their neighbour. We eventually made peace and I never sent forces to fight in the Iroquis front. That's the only thing I can think of that would qualify as breaking a treaty. This is a head scratcher right here.

You can always give them money or technology ,
this the AI seems to remember and the AI looks at this as help .