28-06-2002 18:19									#1
	Apolytonia Clerk Position Got spare money?

I have an idea.

An ammended or added position to the constitution. Clerk. This person would be responsible for keeping the list of voters updated. Take and keep track of all elections. Post polls (in a way that is non bias) and record the results. Keep the listing of what (official) polls are out there, etc.

Very similar to the real world position of city clerk. Note: anyone could post an uniffical poll, but the clerk would be the only one to post official polls.

In the real world, the clerk is typically hired by and under the direction of the city council, NOT the mayors office like most other positions (ie Police, utility maintenance, parks & recreation, fire department, building dep. etc etc etc) which are under the mayor. For us the equivlent of the council is the senate.

As it would be tough to just appoint a volunteer, I suggest that we have an election. This position would not fall under el Presidante, but be equivlant to and work with. Sorry Trip - don't mean to sound like I am squishing your position, I just think that if we do this it needs to be independant.

Whoever volunteers for this would just need to be on the boards a lot and keep track of a lot of things. They would have to work a lot with the recorder (posting what is happening in the game), the prez (who is actually playing), and all the ministers (who report to the prez) to a lesser extent.

Perhaps if the person is good and kind to marko or dan, they could be given some admin powers to help keep the forum clean and organized.

So, what do you think? I do intend to post this as a poll in the next couple of days, but I wanted to get some feedback first to help clarify and focus.

	28-06-2002 18:25									#2
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quote: Post polls (in a way that is non bias) and record the results. Keep the listing of what (official) polls are out there, etc.

Um I think some of it is good ideas, but should say our science minister need to contact this guy in order to post a poll on which research to do next?

Someone to keep track of it all would be nice, yeah. And the non bias: Ya got to be carefull in some of those polls...

	28-06-2002 18:34									#3
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Good idea.

Cleark sounds a bit boring and sub-servient though. How about administrations minister or undersecretary for administrations?

	28-06-2002 18:40									#4
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"Undersecretary for administration"

It's a good idea, but I fear people doing this (Gramphos and Moral Hazard tried, on their own initiative) will be bored very quickly. However, if people are elected for this function, they might keep motivation.

I'm pro the idea, but official polls should be posted by anyone in charge. PMing the clerk for every poll we should make will slow the game even more. Plus, we have a short time between turnchats (the real thing), and we can't afford to lose time before posting polls : the more time we lose in bureacracy, the less time people have to vote.

	28-06-2002 18:47									#5
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My concern is that if anyone can make an official poll, than it becomes that much harder to keep track of them all.

how about "Minister of Administration" "Secretary of Roll Call" "Keeper of the Polls" "Cabinet of Who did What"

If it is elected, it will change over semi-regularly. Hopefully keeping fresh people in and keeping the energy needed for doing this high.

	28-06-2002 19:13									#6
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too boring and official. I don't have time right now to post a longer rebutal

	28-06-2002 19:28									#7
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How could he keep the list of voters updated?!?
I will start census polls on monday, so we will allways have the number of active citizens. But how will he be able to tell who voted?

	28-06-2002 19:47									#8
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Not sure. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the list of current people in the demo game than of checking off those who vote.

	28-06-2002 20:02									#9
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I am usually against adding any more offices to the game but this one sounds good. Though I would only vote for it if the clerk was required to post all polls the ministers requested, otherwise the clerk would be to powerful.

	28-06-2002 20:10									#10
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Yep, I agree, they would have to post a poll within 24 hours of being emailed or PM the request from a minister. Other persons (the people) could also request official polls. If the "clerk - name to be changed" didn't like it, they could have the prez decide if it sould be posted or not. If the prez says yes, then the post would have to go up within 24 hours. If both the prez and the clerk say no, the person would still have the power to post an unofficial poll and the pressure generated could still decide policy. The position is more one of organizer than anything else.

	28-06-2002 20:12									#11
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I like this idea, especially for starting official polls and such.


But ONLY on the basis that anyone who takes the position does not run under a party.

	28-06-2002 20:37									#12
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that's a lot of work for the clerk. they should be rewarded somehow.

	28-06-2002 21:33									#13
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Guys... you realize you're talking about the job of the Vice-President, correct?

It's just that our VPs have been less productive than a rock, or, well, we haven't had one.

HOPEFULLY, our next VP will be as active as is necassary for the job, instead of having me have to step in and babysit every step we take in this thing.

	28-06-2002 23:17									#14
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Isn't this the VP's job?

	29-06-2002 00:07									#15
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quote: President: The President shall physically play the game after referring to his advisors, and generally checking with the people. Once the turns are played the president shall send out the save game file via e-mail only to all the members of his cabinet and any Apolytonia member who specially request it. The Historian and Reporter must receive saves from the end of each turnchat. The President is required to host at least one turnchat a week. The President must have a 2/3 majority before he can change our Government type or mobilize our economy for war. The President has control over drafts. Vice-President: The right hand of the President; he may assist the president in any way currently needed (holding polls, consulting ministers, distributing the save files, etc). In the event the President is unable to play his turn, the Vice-president shall play the turn instead.

Perhaps it should be the VP's job, but the way I understand it, and was proposing it, they wouldn't.

The VP is a stand in for prez. The 'clerk' is seperate. they couldn't take the place of the prez as it is like having 2 separate branches of government. The legislative and the executive. the 'clerk' would represent the legislative and be more of an organizer of who said what, etc. the two branches work together, and keep tabs on eachother.

	29-06-2002 00:48									#16
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The VP doesn't do much, so handing all of the little stuff over to him makes sense.

	29-06-2002 00:57									#17
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It does make sence if you aren't thinking along the seperation of exec. and leg. lines.

But I don't think that this is little stuff. I think this is a fairly large amount of work.

	29-06-2002 01:02									#18
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It's "little stuff" because it does not include decision-making (at least important decision-making), just as worker jobs in the late game are "little stuff".

	29-06-2002 03:12									#19
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quote: Not sure. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the list of current people in the demo game than of checking off those who vote

hmm... gramphos and I already do that

	29-06-2002 22:02									#20
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hi ,

the "senate" could take care of the position , ...

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 00:43									#21
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That was sarcasm, right?

There is no official senate. WE are the senate. Besides, a large group wouldn't be able to effectively handle this sort of thing. The U.S. Government is a prime example .

	30-06-2002 00:55									#22
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker That was sarcasm, right? There is no official senate. WE are the senate. Besides, a large group wouldn't be able to effectively handle this sort of thing. The U.S. Government is a prime example .

hi ,

nope it was not , and next time use a quote so people dont have to find out to who you are talking , ....

now , ones a gain , a five to seven strong senate could do a lot , be a court , help with poll's , do this , do that , ....the whole nine yards , .....

instead of some people who are now doing nothing else but zillion things , and those same poor people are falling asleep , and they cant play the game , .... more then they are doing now , .....because they are almost getting lost in all the little things thet are doing now , ....



some people start to feel , ..... : dizzy from all the things they are doing now .

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 00:59									#23
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So we should have a senate with fewer people in it than in our executive branch? And these are elected? The only way a senate would work is if WE were the senate (i.e. no change), or if we were big enough to have provinces and had senators from each province.

	30-06-2002 01:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker So we should have a senate with fewer people in it than in our executive branch? And these are elected? The only way a senate would work is if WE were the senate (i.e. no change), or if we were big enough to have provinces and had senators from each province.

hi ,

, you must be overworked , a few lines and posts ago , remember the US senate , that is bigger then the executive , ..........
any-way , its worth to read what was written in the past about it , ........

so , when are you going to use an avatar of the government , ....

have a nice day

	30-06-2002 08:55									#25
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Most people have voted against a senate in a previous poll (although the question and options were obviously in favor of a senate).

There is no such thing as a Senate, simply because the people do not want it. You'll need at least 3 weeks of waiting before repolling on this one, if you want your repoll to be constitutional and acceptable.

	30-06-2002 16:52									#26
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Yes, the U.S. Senate is bigger than the Executive Branch (if you're thinking of the exec branch as the President and the Cabinet). This would be smaller.