01-07-2002 03:11									#31
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Super Sheep

	01-07-2002 03:12									#32
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I'd go for the concrete donkey myself.

	01-07-2002 03:15									#33
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Not in a confined space

	01-07-2002 03:32									#34
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1. first off you need to be fast, if you miss once or twice kicking, you're out, your strength is diminished. Depends on the chokehold. If the guy is not doing it properly, you can actually move your body quite easily so that your chest faces his ..mm... ribs? ok.. and now you take your hand that is in his backside to his chin, push and fall with your leg that is the same side as your chin holding hand placed properly to his heel, tripping him. You will automatically fall so that your on top of him and from there you go for kill. Sounds hard, difficult to explain but very easy once learned to do properly. Works 95% of situations. From there if the situation is life threatning, forget the balls, go for throat strike, knock his 'apple of adam' to the back of his neck resulting his death by choking. If you don't want to go for kill, you can gauge his eyes a bit with your thumbs, extremly painfull. Get up, stomp on the head, take the wallet and run . You can also do full mounting from there if you are familiar with it, and maybe go for armbroker, which is safe but painfull to the other guy.
Essential is takedown. It shocks the unexperienced fighter a bit, from where you capitalize, and get momentum. Do not hesitate, it will cost you to get your ass kicked and possible death or bad injury.

On the other hand, if the attacker knows his chokes and goes for proper one, it's almost impossible to get out. If you can't move and he leans to you so you can't kick the balls or his legs which is the proper way to do it, and you can't go for his fingers either, you can try to get your other hand to the back of his head and other hand gauging his eyes, this time pushing them out of his head. Again if he knows what he's doing, you are not able to do this. He will dominate your ass.. so maybe try falling or throwing hands and legs, maybe making the other guy making mistake and opening a situation for you, from where you go for kill.

2. if the attacker comes face to face, he's not able to make a dominating choke, so he'll probably go to your back, which you don't want to give whatever the cost, avoid it for anything you've got. When front, you can do whatever you want. You don't have to grab his fingers or hands, just hard punch to the guys nose. Brake it. He will let go. Remember, straight punching is always good, almost in every situation. Or you can move right his face if able to loosen up one hand and headbutt to the nose. Headbutting is always good choise. From there you can't stop and wait him to recover, take him down and gauge his eyes again. Gauging is also always good. Very painfull. Elbows to the side of his head and then you can do pretty much everything you want.
Always remember to go for straight, fast solutions. And don't give the time to recover. Be brutal if you have to.
But only if it's your life depending, otherwise kick the balls

	01-07-2002 03:35									#35
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I'd show him Pekka's post and ask him to read it in full. After he runs away, I'd call the police.

	01-07-2002 03:40									#36
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Well those guys are probably too stupid to read anyway. Essential is taking momentum. You have to train these though to make them possible to do in real life.. Saves you from embarrasment . Show no mercy, he's there to kill you, now you don't want that do you?

Actually just came to my mind there are some good techniques in krav maga for these situations.. maybe the israelis in this board knows them too. If you are in danger to encounter these situation, i'd go to learn krav maga, it's nice and effective in real life.

	01-07-2002 04:02									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Actually just came to my mind there are some good techniques in krav maga for these situations.. maybe the israelis in this board knows them too. If you are in danger to encounter these situation, i'd go to learn krav maga, it's nice and effective in real life.

From where do you think my ears attack comes?

quote: it's nice and effective in real life.

Define effective.
Causing permanent damage to the guy who wants to steal your wallet? Krav Maga is for combat situations.

	01-07-2002 04:03									#38
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Eli, I knew i could trust you on this one

effective if you're in situation that is threatning, maybe even your life. Like attacker choking you. Then you make it combat. There's no such thing is glorious fair fistfight

edit: and yes if it's a case of stealing wallet, then hell no. Just to protect you and your health. There's no point taking big risks beating someone or getting yourself a beating because of something stupid like a wallet. Or car.

	01-07-2002 06:16									#39
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UR, are you in a time critical situation?

	01-07-2002 06:22									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger If you get in a fight, and encounters one of the following situations, how would you deal with it? 1. You are grabbed from behind. The attacker puts you in a choking hold. 2. Somebody chokes you with both hands from the front. Assume in both cases, the attacker is of average build. I am particularly interested in replies from the ACS'ers who went through military service.

I was in military swervice (it was obligatory) but we had guns there and I would just shoot him point blank in the head I guess.

or maybe in the legs, you know, be nice...

	01-07-2002 07:19									#41
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paiktis22, same here.. not detailed techniques, because they don't often work. Just some punching and kicking and stuff like that. What we were taught was very simple: just grab for something and hit the enemy with it, do something, scream if you have to, be crazy, attack like a mad man, improvise, but just do something! . i think those were maybe the best advises ever.

	01-07-2002 07:27									#42
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Pekka, how many months is the military service in Finland? (I am pretty sure, it is obligatory too there?)

	01-07-2002 07:34									#43
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It depends.. 6months, 9months or the whole year. And yeah if you're young man you have to go. I had the pleasure of doing the whole trip.

	01-07-2002 08:08									#44
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If he's got you from behind, easy. Grab the back of his neck with your arm and lean with your back downward so they sllllllide right on down to the ground on your back.

At this point there grip is threatened. Then while your both on the ground this helps.

Another, get there nuts. Or push them back into a wall or tree as hard as you can.

I was in a fight when I liek 15. I had cut school in the woods with some kids and there was alot of pot smokin, which tends to make people aggressive. Well, this kid came after me and threw a few punchs. At the time I was only 5'1, this guy was about 5'6 so I realized how little a chance I stood. I took a few thrashings to the face, got fed up and bull charged him real low. I had a wieght advantage so after backing him up onto a fence I came up with my right fist and popped his chin out and consequently broke his jaw, after a few seconds he realised what had happened. And began walking away. I chased him down put him in a headlock and continued to pound his jaw in to his screams I finally let him go after I saw his freshman brother arriving......and ran like hell!

Of course an easier approach is a baseball bat. Which I used on someone who tried to rape my little 15 year old sister.. He was in like 11th grade, I was 23 at the time. He didnt have a chance...I was pretty angry.

	01-07-2002 08:15									#45
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Shoot him with my .50 Calibre Desert Eagle.

	01-07-2002 08:24									#46
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quote: 1. You are grabbed from behind. The attacker puts you in a choking hold.

First of all, I'm assuming a proper choke.

First thing you do, no matter what your fighting style is, is to tuck your chin into your chest as much as possible. If you're fast enough, he will not be able to get a choke at all, and even if not the strength of his choke will be diminished.

From here, there's a few things you can do. The first one is to heel kick him in the groin, although this is a little iffy depending on where he is standing - if he's doing this correctly, it won't work. The next thing you can do, if you are wearing heavy shoes, is raise one of your legs and scrape your heel down his shin as hard as you can to create pain. Once his grip begins to loosen, grab his wrist with one hand and reach under his arm with the other. Immediately thereafter, what you want to do is to hip throw him (which I won't bother describing in writing). Make sure you retain control of his arm once he's on the ground, and fall back into an armbar, and break his arm. If he still needs subduing, which is unlikely, feel free to take one hand, press on his cheek and chin so that his head is pinned to the ground, and hit him as many times as desired in the side of the head/face with either an elbow (preferable) or with what is known as a palm strike. Don't hit him with your fist unless it is unavoidable.

Another approach is to reach back and gouge at his eyes, which may or may not be effective. If you miss, you are really in trouble because now he has control of your arms.

A further solution one can try is elbows into his kidneys, if the positioning is right, followed up by the technique I described above.

The final thing to do, and this is what I would prefer to do, is as follows:
Tuck my chin and grab his arm with both hands, pinning it against my chest in such a way as he can't choke me and can't draw it back.
Use leverage to push off his arm and turn into him, keeping my head down. Optimally, I will end up with my head tucked behind one shoulder pushing into his chest, although it is also acceptable to be face to face with him.
From there, I would use a Muay Thai/BJJ technique to close any remaining distance and gain the inside - meaning my arms are on the inside of his, preferably grabbing up the back of his neck.
At this point, I would probably knee him in the groin to double him over a little bit, followed up by repeated knees to the head.
If he knew how to fight, and avoided knees, I would instead go for a basic front takedown, and work grappling against him, because most people are not skilled ground fighters.
My final option, if he was defending against a takedown, would be to head butt him in the face and push away from him, creating space in which I could work either boxing or thai boxing.

quote: Somebody chokes you with both hands from the front.

First of all, anyone who does this is stupid beyond belief.
All you have to do to avoid this ridiculous choke is to push both your arms up between his, and push outwards with your forearms while grabbing up the back of his neck. Once his grip is loosened, step back with one foot while pulling his head down as hard as you can. Once his head is down, follow it up with a knee to the head with the foot you stepped back with, and repeat as necessary.

In this situation, eye gouging is also a possibility, but I wouldn't do it because it is easy for your attacker to evade, and even if he lets go it's worse for you. Here's why. If someone is front choking you, they are being stupid. You are in control of the situation because you know it is hard to choke someone out from that position, but very easy to get out of the choke and control the attacker, ending the fight. If you let them out of this situation, without causing damage, you have no idea what they will do next - they might do something right, and hurt you. Might as well let them think they are in control for the 1 second it takes to start the technique I described. It's all downhill for them from there.

	01-07-2002 08:25									#47
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I still say shoot him with my DE....

	01-07-2002 08:26									#48
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quote: If he's got you from behind, easy. Grab the back of his neck with your arm and lean with your back downward so they sllllllide right on down to the ground on your back.

True, but if he is competent at all - which you should always assume he is - he will be much more dangerous in this position. In Jiujitsu, it is known as taking someone's back, and is a situation you never want to get into.

	01-07-2002 08:27									#49
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Sava -

Well, this is mainly for the poor Europeans who aren't allowed to have handguns

	01-07-2002 08:41									#50
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DF, you're too complicated...

Hit him hard enough to make him let you go, then some nice easy standing takedown (hip toss or fireman if you're feeling man enough), and put your boots into him as many times as necessary...

	01-07-2002 08:45									#51
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quote: DF, you're too complicated... Hit him hard enough to make him let you go, then some nice easy standing takedown (hip toss or fireman if you're feeling man enough), and put your boots into him as many times as necessary...

Actually that's sorta what I said. On the first one, though, if they are doing it right, it will be hard to hit them a couple times and make them let go before you can choke them out.
As to the second one, the approach I gave is definitely the most effective - if someone is trying to front choke you why go to the ground at all when you can finish them with knees to the head?

	01-07-2002 08:47									#52
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You don't go to ground. Stay standing...

People with no wrestling/similar experience are like limp fish. You can throw them whichever way you want...

	01-07-2002 08:50									#53
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quote: Causing permanent damage to the guy who wants to steal your wallet? Krav Maga is for combat situations.

Hell, I see no problem really hurting someone who tries to steal your wallet. Maybe next time he won't try to rob someone. Training in ways of being gentle will just result in you getting your ass kicked, because you fight like you train. One of my instructors (a former Marine DI) always says that, and I think it's true.

	01-07-2002 08:53									#54
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quote: You don't go to ground. Stay standing... People with no wrestling/similar experience are like limp fish. You can throw them whichever way you want...

Yes, very true. If that's more your style, go for that. To me, what I described is much simpler for the front choke situation - I'm a better striker than grappler.

	01-07-2002 08:53									#55
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quote: Hell, I see no problem really hurting someone who tries to steal your wallet. Maybe next time he won't try to rob someone. Training in ways of being gentle will just result in you getting your ass kicked, because you fight like you train. One of my instructors (a former Marine DI) always says that, and I think it's true

If I have the choice between losing my wallet and hurting someone seriously, I'd let them have my wallet.

	01-07-2002 08:56									#56
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I'd rather keep the money.

	01-07-2002 08:57									#57
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That's because you're an

quote: Evil Capitalist Conservative

	01-07-2002 08:58									#58
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Completely depends on what you mean by a "choking hold."

quote: then some nice easy standing takedown

Why a standing takedown? That usually requires much more force than a single or double leg takedown, particularly with bigger guys.

	01-07-2002 09:00									#59
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Describe the choking hold of your choice

	01-07-2002 09:01									#60
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quote: If I have the choice between losing my wallet and hurting someone seriously, I'd let them have my wallet.

Not me

quote: Why a standing takedown? That usually requires much more force than a single or double leg takedown, particularly with bigger guys.

That is true, but single/double leg takedowns are risky, as well, in that if your opponent picks up on the takedown, they can sprawl on top of you, or, more seriously, knee you in the face on the way down. Also, they can drop elbows and, if you're not careful, catch you in a guillotine choke. Standing takedowns, whether a throw, sweep, or body takedown, are much safer, in that you don't generally expose your head to attack.