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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:20
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Because if you're on the ground, there's a chance you'll get seriously hurt. Stay standing, with him at your feet, and he's got nothing. Kick him, run like hell, it's up to you.
Plus, if he's got a friend, I'd rather not be lying on my back...
I would never, ever, ever, go down onto my knees to do a leg takedown with some big ****er standing over me; he might just decide to give the back of your head a nice big swat.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
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quote:
Because if you're on the ground, there's a chance you'll get seriously hurt. Stay standing, with him at your feet, and he's got nothing. Kick him, run like hell, it's up to you. |
If you're both on the ground, and you know what you're doing, chances of getting hurt are actually less than in a standup situation, in my opinion.
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Plus, if he's got a friend, I'd rather not be lying on my back... |
Very good point, but you shouldn't be lying on your back following a takedown.
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I would never, ever, ever, go down onto my knees to do a leg takedown with some big ****er standing over me; he might just decide to give the back of your head a nice big swat. |
That is my big objection, although I worry more about an experienced fighter falling into a guard and choking ME out from his back.
To be completely fair, you don't have to go to both, or necessarily even one, knee for a leg takedown.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
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quote:
You don't have to, but trust me, you need to be He-man to do it otherwise... |
Not necessarily. I agree that leg takedowns are much more difficult, though, unless you know exactly how to do them.
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You give them much more time to react when you shoot the legs. |
Yes, that is very true, and that can cost you. If you are good enough with leg takedowns, it isn't a problem, but I personally don't like taking that chance.
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If he doesn't have his guard out from his body, a hp toss is over in no time flat. Try it on anybody without experience... |
Definitely, I know what you mean.
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Alinestra Covelia
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I sense the dodgy presence of Bing - a presence I've not felt since...
Feb 2000
time: 00:20
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1. Get my hands around attacker's thumb and twist outwards. Once my neck is free, I abruptly jerk my torso upwards to free his lock as much as I can, then bend down to grab his leg from in front. Then I can just sit down backwards and bring him to the floor or elbow to the lower ribcage, where the ribs are most fragile.
2. This depends on whether the opponent's arms are rigid. If they are, bring both of my hands across from the right, over his right arm, then underneath the left arm. (Rather like pleating.) This must be done near the elbows. Then, lever his arms over to the right. Either way, this will force at least one of his hands to release his grip, or force his arms to slacken, at which point...
If they are slack, do a forward rolling action with both forearms horizontally - one goes down on the elbows to bend them further, the other comes up underneath his wrists. Apply pressure, pulling forward arm back and down, pushing back arm up and forwards. If necessary, engage feet - if I'm wearing shoes, I'll scrape my instep down along his shins. If not, I'll step forwards and try to step down on his kneecap, or cowkick his kneecap.
I'm not very good at kneelifts, so I tend not to go for the groin. Last time I tried kneelifting my housemate Bing, he countered with a cowkick and scraped a good length of skin off my shinbone. Kicks are also something I don't think are really worth it, unless they're kept quite low (say, knee height and below). Bing tried kicking a Beijing policeman last March and the guy just caught his leg and fractured his elbow on the ground.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:20
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There are some problems with falling down with the attacker. First of all you give your back to him and he is still in dominating position IF he is verstaile fighter. On the other hand it might break the situation if he doesn't really know what he's doing.. and if he knows, falling back might the the only option for you to do. That's why i recommended turning your body which can be done quite easily the way i explained, because from there on you're on the top in his guard (if he knows how to protect himself). If you don't know how to grapple, just place your face near to his chest so he can't hit you with power. It's kind of gay position, but you won't be thinking about it at that point  .
Yes, and keeping your chin on your chest is good, then attacker can't choke you so easy. It's the same if you're toe to toe with the attacker. Shoot in his waist and take him down. Bar style if you will. From there you must be quick and determined and take it to ground and pound.
I divide defending yourself into 3 categories, toe to toe, takedowns and grappling, if you know all, you shouldn't have any problems with a-holes. If you're smaller than the attacker, you might want to take it to grappling match. Diminishes the meaning of weight. If you're afraid of being punched in the face, take it to ground. If you can't do grappling well, just remember don't give your back at any cost, keep your chin to your chest, gauge eyes, punch with all you can and headbutt a lot. if you don't want to get hit, get your head to his chest or back, he is not able to hit you hard. That's about it.
But remember if you have to go that far, there are serious risks about it ending sadly. If you hit someone who's on the floor, his head will bounce on the floor like a soccer ball. Dangerous.
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:20
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quote:
Because if you're on the ground, there's a chance you'll get seriously hurt. Stay standing, with him at your feet, and he's got nothing. Kick him, run like hell, it's up to you. |
In nearly every case (i.e. unless this guy is weak/small)I'd rather be down with my opponent than standing up with him. It amplifies any advantages of technique in the fight.
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That is true, but single/double leg takedowns are risky, as well, in that if your opponent picks up on the takedown, they can sprawl on top of you, or, more seriously, knee you in the face on the way down. Also, they can drop elbows and, if you're not careful, catch you in a guillotine choke. |
That's true. But if this guy is able to do any of that, pulling off a hip toss doesn't seem guaranteed.
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Standing takedowns, whether a throw, sweep, or body takedown, are much safer, in that you don't generally expose your head to attack |
It's easier to maintain control over your attacker after a leg takedown than a standing takedown.
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Plus, if he's got a friend, I'd rather not be lying on my back... |
True...
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
First thing you do, no matter what your fighting style is, is to tuck your chin into your chest as much as possible. If you're fast enough, he will not be able to get a choke at all, and even if not the strength of his choke will be diminished. |
If you can anticipte that, you can probably sink down a couple of inches to a proper stance, then counter with an elbow smash.
quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
The final thing to do, and this is what I would prefer to do, is as follows:
Tuck my chin and grab his arm with both hands, pinning it against my chest in such a way as he can't choke me and can't draw it back.
Use leverage to push off his arm and turn into him, keeping my head down. Optimally, I will end up with my head tucked behind one shoulder pushing into his chest, although it is also acceptable to be face to face with him.
From there, I would use a Muay Thai/BJJ technique to close any remaining distance and gain the inside - meaning my arms are on the inside of his, preferably grabbing up the back of his neck.
At this point, I would probably knee him in the groin to double him over a little bit, followed up by repeated knees to the head.
If he knew how to fight, and avoided knees, I would instead go for a basic front takedown, and work grappling against him, because most people are not skilled ground fighters.
My final option, if he was defending against a takedown, would be to head butt him in the face and push away from him, creating space in which I could work either boxing or thai boxing. |
That sounds too complicated. If I had control of one of his arms, I'd make a step or two forward, extending his arm. Then I'd just spin around while rotating his arm outwards (away from his body) and raising it upwards, then steppinf back and flip him on the ground. If his armpit is exposed enough, I'll use a finger spear to strike before flipping him.
quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
First of all, anyone who does this is stupid beyond belief. |
Well yeah, but that happens surprisingly often 
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
2. This depends on whether the opponent's arms are rigid. If they are, bring both of my hands across from the right, over his right arm, then underneath the left arm. (Rather like pleating.) This must be done near the elbows. Then, lever his arms over to the right. Either way, this will force at least one of his hands to release his grip, or force his arms to slacken, at which point... |
I'll be content with smashing his elbows if his arms are locked. Bring both of your arms from the outside to the inside in a sweeping arc, ball your hands into a fist with palms facing you, and strike at the locked elbows. If you swing hard enough you can break a joint or two, disabling your attacker right away.
quote:
Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
If they are slack |
You can step backwards to cause his arms to extend If not, my favourite counter is open palm to the nose. That has the best chance of succeeding and causes lots of pain. Jabbing eyes might work, but the chances of success isn't great.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:20
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I'm going to reply straight away, so as to give completely unpolluted advice, so I'm sorry if this is redundant.
1) If the attacker is of average build, then he is around the same size as I am. Therefore to throw a chokehold on me from behind (assuming the naked strangle is being used here) he is going to have to stand very tall to reach over my shoulders and plant the strangle. I would use a shoulder throw here, something I don't use often, but our opponent is really asking for it in this situation. Take the arm he is using to bar your throat with both hands, throw it high while holding on. Back into him until your butt makes contact with his torso (this is going to be your fulcrum). When you make good contact lean forward while bringing your arms (which are still holding one of his arms) downward. Accellerate through the maneuver keeping your back round, and throwing your hips up as he passes them for a little extra lift. He should fly right up over you, but if he is somehow resisting, don't be afraid to drop down to your knees to help him over. Once you get him in the air be sure to drop him on his head really hard. Follow through visciously and finish him. Anyone who attacks like this (without warning and with some martial arts knowledge) is extremely dangerous, so kill him if you must, or run if that's open to you.
2) Any attempt to strangle you should be met with one defensive technique every time, which is to lower your chin as much as you can while hardening the muscles in your neck, especially the sides. This is really effective against strangling, but you have to do it before your opponent manages to set his stranglehold, otherwise you are probably finished. I am assuming here that you had at least a split second of warning about this attack, as it is against your front. He is probably going to grab your collar and go for one of those type of strangles, so drop your chin, throw your hands inside of his from below (always nice to have a lower center of gravity than your opponent) and violently bring them apart once your elbows are about level with his arms. This will probably break his grip on your collar, which should bring you to a position of parity.
If he has managed to somehow set his strangle on you then you are in a good deal more trouble. You only have time for one or perhaps two moves. I would try to throw him in order for the extreme violence of the movement to have a chance of breaking his grip. There are too many possible throws from this position to list here, so use the one you like best and best fits the situation. Keep in mind that his iron grip on your life is an opportunity for you as well. You can use his grip to move his just as he can use your to move you. What you don't want to do is anything that brings you both to the ground gently, as he will certainly kill you then if that is his intention. Pick something, focus on it, execute, and immediately have another move ready if he resists the first. If you haven't shaken him by then you probably won't.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. President
I believe in using the feet when possible. If you can get into position for a good kick to the groin or the midsection. Few people can maintain a choke hold for long after being kicked in the sternum. |
Of course even fewer people can kick someone who has them in a chokehold in the sternum in the first place. Have you ever fought anyone who knows grappling techniques? If not you will be in a lot of trouble.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. President
Other than that, it pays to know which parts of the body are most vulnerable to attack and which ones do the most damage when used to attack. The eyes, neck, and groin are soft spots; the elbows and knees cause a ton of damage. The nose is also a good place to aim for; a hit there might cause little permanent damage, but it's extremely painful. |
True enough, but a lot of these areas are not easy to attack effectually unless you have been trained to do so. I tend to stay away from pain techniques generally unless they bring an ancillary benefit by also disabling. The reason is that pain to a maniac or to anyone in a life or death struggle is going to be very secondary. You want to disable or kill against more dangerous opponents. Thus I much prefer attacks on joints to those upon the groin, which IMO is extremely overrated as a target. Sure it hurts to get kicked there, and a really top-notch racking can incapacitate, but I have seen many people try to strike for the groin over the years, and very very few succeed. The nose is another good dual purpose target as you mention, as it is both painful, and possible fatal if struck with the proper technique.
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01-07-2002 09:01
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