01-07-2002 03:36									#1
	Do we like Civ3 or not? Get a bigger avatar today!

I must admit I am really tired of the neverending disputes over the quality of Civ3. I believe they have been pretty much dull all the time... repeating same or similar arguments over and over. A waste of time for those who already own the game, tiresome/confusing for those that consider buying it. What about making a general satisfaction poll, free of any discussions/arguments?

Let everybody expresses his/her (dis)satisfaction with the game. Let everybody briefly rates various concepts/features as great, OK, or bad. Such a poll/thread might be a real bless for those that consider buying the game. And the rest of us might finally learn what we belong to: the majority or the minority...

For those of you willing to spend a couple of minutes, here is the guide to this poll:

Ultimately satisfied – "I just love Civ3, it is the best game I have ever played!"
Satisfied, enjoying it – "For me, it is a great game, even if not perfect."
Somewhat satisfied – "A good game, although it lacks a lot to be great."
No distinct feeling – "Nothing special of a game, just a mediocre product."
Dissatisfied – "I do not like Civ3 very much, though it has some bright moments."
Disgusted - "A total crap and waste of my money."

Consider the current version of the game (1.21f), please, and try looking at the game as something it is, rather than something it was in your dreams and it is now not .

I believe it would also be interesting to see if there is any relation between one's Civ3 satisfaction and whether and how much one played/liked (plays/likes) Civ1, Civ2, CtP, CtP2, SMAC, EU, EU2 and Civ3. Therefore I (and perhaps others, too) would appreciate a lot, if people voting in the poll add short posts including some background info and what they (dis)like about the game. Ladies and gentlemen, do your best to be brief and do not respond to others' posts here, please – the last thing I would like to start is yet another endless dispute... If you change your mind, wish to clarify or append something, edit your initial post instead of adding another one. I guess it would be best to have just a single post per voter only.

	01-07-2002 03:41									#2
	Re: Do we like Civ3 or not? Put an end to popups!

Background: played/loved Civ2 (hundreds of hours), played/didn’t like SMAC (30hrs), did not play Civ1, CtP/CtP2, EU/EU2 at all; a bit more of a builder than warmonger
Civ3: voted "Satisfied, enjoying it"; still playing after 300+ hrs (10-15 hrs every two or three weeks, Regent level); IMHO, way better than Civ2.

My thumbs definitely up for: culture, resources, trade, civ-specific traits/units, terrain generator, graphics, AI, great wonders, small wonders, Firaxis response/support
Satisfied with: diplomacy, user interface, tech tree, units, corruption, civilopedia, replayability, war weariness, combat, restricted movement in the enemy territory
Not satisfied with: spying, UN vote, naval air warfare, waste
Don’t care about : editor, governors, wonder movies, scoring system, city flipping, multiplayer, scenarios

	01-07-2002 03:59									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Satisfied, enjoying it

	01-07-2002 04:00									#4
	Tired of ads?

I do. But it could've been better.

	01-07-2002 04:14									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The problem with Civ III is not the format, or the graphics, or anything of that ilk: the problem is that CivII is now what? - 6 years old?, and we see very little progression from there.

	01-07-2002 04:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Please allow me to re-para-phrase that:
The problem with our world; our civilization is not the format, or the graphics, or anything of that ilk: the problem is that our world; our civilization is now what? – 6,000 years old?, and we see very little progression from there.
I’ll probably get flamed for this, but it’s just an observation.

	01-07-2002 04:46									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I voted for dissatisfied, but a better choice for me would be disappointed. The more I have played the game, the more I have liked it. While that's a good thing, when I think of Alpha Centauri, I shudder to think what might have been. It's addictive still, but that level of love I had with previous incarnations is gone.

	01-07-2002 04:54									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I enjoy it, for sure...yet it just falls short of being a great game, in some undefinable way...

	01-07-2002 06:20									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by miccofl Please allow me to re-para-phrase that: The problem with our world; our civilization is not the format, or the graphics, or anything of that ilk: the problem is that our world; our civilization is now what? – 6,000 years old?, and we see very little progression from there. I’ll probably get flamed for this, but it’s just an observation.

History repeats.

	01-07-2002 06:50									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

not!

	01-07-2002 07:32									#11
	Got spare money?

quote: History Repeats

Are you saying that Civ II upon release was this bad too? Shame on you .

	01-07-2002 07:44									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, on release, Civ II did not multiplayer nor scenarios.

	01-07-2002 08:01									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Overall its a pretty good game. Some faults here and there; AI, lack of scenarios & ablity to make them, lack of certain units. Well maybe not that first reason, I'll never be satisfied until i can't tell if I'm playing the computer or a human. But that probaly won't happen for another 5 to 10 years, and when that happens I'll start worrying.

	01-07-2002 09:54									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Its not perfect, but it definitely beats Civ II.

Let's just say I am satisfied (I mean I am still playing it).

	01-07-2002 10:06									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

of course we like it. if we didn't we wouldn't complain we'd throw it away.

	01-07-2002 11:01									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's a good game. I really hope that the current developers at Firaxis are given the chance to really do some things with this and with Civ4.

Civ4 may be a little too far ahead. If the commercial success of Civ3 continues through PtW there is every reason to believe they may be given the opportunity to continue with additional expansions and refinements for Civ3.

	01-07-2002 14:53									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm satisfied and enjoying it. Sure, the game has it's flaws, but nothing that I consider disgusting .

	01-07-2002 15:37									#18
	Tired of ads?

I am enjoying the game very much.

I agree with Vodrack's comments above, only difference is that I would move the "Diplomacy" in "the not satisfied with" category.

I have never played SMAC, I've never even seen a demo. I've played a lot of Sid's game like Colonization, Gettysburg, etc. And I have been more or less satisfied with them.

	01-07-2002 16:37									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I´m definately enjoying the game, but there are some issues that make the experience of playing Civ3 somewhat less than it could have been. That is very irritating. Then I´m primarilly thinking about the functions in the game itself that they removed because of *political* reasons. Which we of course will not associate with September 11. These would be the removal of Fundementalism and poisoning.

Of course I also agree with Vondrack in his assessment og the game, I just wanted to include this.

	01-07-2002 19:00									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Satisfied and enjoying the game.

I'm ultimately satisfied with: culture, civ specific traits, resources/lux.
I'm dissatisfied with spying, corruption and war weariness.
Disgusted is a strong word, but if I'm disgusted with anything its the UN. So much could have been done with it but instead all the UN is good for is the illogical, anticlimatic, magic vote that decides a winner from out of nowhere. What about UN resolutions, what about sanctions? An anti-nuclear weapons treaty, a global warming treaty, an anti-war treaty (anyone who declares war gets sanctions), and so much more.


Also, two words: wonder movies . I would even be happy with a decent wonder graphic accompanied with an educational narration as to the importance of the wonder.

	01-07-2002 20:03									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ultimately satisfied, and I have extremely high standards

	01-07-2002 21:25									#22
	Got spare money?

My only real complaints are no unit trading and the UN is a fraction of what it could be...

	01-07-2002 21:30									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oh yeah... unit trading and gifting really needs to be in the game.

	01-07-2002 21:34									#24
	Disastified. Put an end to popups!

I played it for a week when I first bought it, and never again.

	02-07-2002 02:03									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

hi ,

great game , but it needs a bit of work , ....

however its something completely new , something that send chockwaves true the industry , ....

and lets remember , Rome and Paris aint built on one day either , ......

have a nice day

	02-07-2002 02:24									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

I voted for satisfied and enjoying the game.

I think the game is a solid 8, probably 8.5 It is not perfect, but neither was Civ 2, which in my mind, got really tedious.

	02-07-2002 02:39									#27
	Tired of ads?

I'm satisfied, but not ultimately.

	02-07-2002 02:51									#28
	Re: Disastified. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Osweld I played it for a week when I first bought it, and never again.

So then- you bought it just to post on the discussion forums?

	02-07-2002 03:17									#29
	Re: Re: Disastified. Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Osweld I played it for a week when I first bought it, and never again.

quote: Originally posted by miccofl So then- you bought it just to post on the discussion forums?

miccofl, I understand your point (and most people here do, as it seems). But let's stick to expressing our own rating of Civ3 and avoid commenting posts of other people, ok?

I believe these brief posts about what people here at Apolyton generally think of Civ3 are great to read and everybody must be able to quickly get the general opinion. Osweld's post is just as valuable as anyone else's, as it - considering other posts here, majority of which is "satisfied" - indirectly points out that giving Civ3 too little time may be the cause of dissatisfaction and/or disappointment.

BTW, thanks to everybody for taking time to participate. Although I originally hoped for a bit more detailed posts briefly rating various concepts in the game, I can see that this may be even better. It does not take hours to read through the thread and it is easy to get the message.



edit: miccofl emailed me apologizing for the comment - he meant to include a smilie/laughie, but somehow failed to. He would edit the post, but considering my follow-up, it would then be rather confusing, so he would let it stay this way, even if it was not exactly what he wanted to express.

	02-07-2002 03:39									#30
	Tired of ads?

I voted satisfied and enjoying it. Now, obviously, these types of games aren't easy to program. There are a few flaws I've noticed, but it's still an excellent game.

Ultimately satisfied for me, is basically when something is flawless, a masterpiece you can't get out of your head, think of very few improvements etc. . Also, when I stay up an entire night playing the game. So far, I've only stayed up till three AM (still a feat for me)

Now when you compare it to Zoo Tycoon, Civ3 is mountains better. Everytime I look at that game, I get the urge to puke. I can't believe I even bought it in the first place!