06-07-2002 07:14									#181
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See what I said? His massive investigation has turned up this response:

It's Noah's Ark just because I want it to be.

Way to go, Encyclopedia Brown!

	06-07-2002 07:16									#182
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This outta be good, I'm waiting for the results of his investigation. I've taken two religious studies courses on the bible. My teacher, theologian Dr. John Richy, specializes in teaching about religious scripture. He outlined the sources of all the bible's stories.

	06-07-2002 07:19									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Sava My teacher, theologian Dr. John Richy, specializes in teaching about religious scripture.

If there's any relationship between me and your teacher, then you'd condemn him, too.

	06-07-2002 07:22									#184
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I don't condemn you cloud9, I just know you're wrong. I think more things, but I don't want to get restricted . #1 rule about theologians buddy boy... they are objective and keep their own beliefs out of their teachings.

	07-07-2002 22:20									#185
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Don't throw your pearls for swine, Cloud9...

Asher is trying to convey himself as a mature modern sceptic. He can't grow a moustache...

	07-07-2002 22:29									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Lars-E Asher is trying to convey himself as a mature modern sceptic. He can't grow a moustache...

I'm doing no such thing.
That's my opinion on the matter, if you think I'm "trying to convey myself" to be something else that's your problem.

	07-07-2002 23:00									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't condemn you cloud9, I just know you're wrong. I think more things, but I don't want to get restricted . #1 rule about theologians buddy boy... they are objective and keep their own beliefs out of their teachings.

man

you should know

most theologians are just looking for something different

most will pick unbeleif at every point at which they can

they will doubt one part of the bible, and then use that doubt to invalidate another part, and use that invalidation as reason for their inital doubt

they deffinitely are not the experts on the bible

and the legend of Noah is all over the place in mythology, including mythologies that came from peoples who had nothing to do with Sumer

so either 1 primitive people think alike and came up the same story

or 2 there was some sort of flood early in man's history which was catastrophic to him

if it tells you anything about most theologians they will pick 1 (when 2 seems a lot more reasonable to me)

Jon Miller

	08-07-2002 01:13									#188
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"Damn shame we cant get up there. Stupid Kurdish guerilla's killed the last two guys who dared to seek out the ark. "

maybe bush will find time in our current holy war to go in there and smite the heathens.

	08-07-2002 01:18									#189
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Thank you Jon for your good insight.

Now can I add to this?

On the subject of theology, let me challenge you to this: Find me one pastor or minister that hasn't studied it! All pastors study theology in college; it's a standard part of their training. I even have a friend that is in college right now majoring in pastoral ministry. He has taken Theology classes as a part of his degree program.

Just for the record, Webster's New World dictionary defines theology as "the study of religious doctrines and matters of divinity; specif., the study of God and the relations between God, mankind, and the universe."

Isn't it ironic that pastors actually study Theology and still believe in God?

	08-07-2002 02:20									#190
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Here is another point I want to make.

For those that say religion is harmless you are wrong. According the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are more crimes committed against religious people then non-religious people each year. This suggests that there is a general unhappiness and discontent among the non-religious population; otherwise, why would non-religious people feel that they need to commit crimes? This suggest there is something that is keeping religious people from commiting crimes less frequently than non-religious people. Those that are religious and commit crimes have obviously misinterpreted the scriptures. Isn't it ironic?

Now as far as getting these same statistics on an International level, well, let's just say I can't seem to find a trusted source; anyone that can, please submit a link to it here and be sure quote a trusted government source. Thanks.

Here is my source: Click here, scroll down to page two and read the table under the religion section.

Last edited by Mr. Nice Guy on 08-07-2002 at 05:14

	08-07-2002 02:39									#191
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Jon, you forgot possibility three, floods happen everywhere, hence the ubiquity of flood myths.

	08-07-2002 03:05									#192
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People, don't diss Cloud9, the Flood didhappen, in the year 2765 BC at Mornington Crescent...

Oops, wrong thread...

	08-07-2002 08:53									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 Here is another point I want to make. According the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are more crimes committed against religious people then non-religious people each year. This suggests that there is a general unhappiness and discontent among the non-religious population; otherwise, why would non-religious people feel that they need to commit crimes?

What are you talking about? I did a quick glance at that link and saw nothing to suggests that more crimes are committed against religious people than non-religious. I saw nothing to suggest that non-religious people are more likely to commit crimes.

According to that link:

72 per cent of hate crimes are done for race or ethnic reasons

14.4 per cent of hate crimes are done for religious reasons

76 per cent of hate crimes are committed by whites, 66 per cent by white males

2 per cent of hate crimes are committed against Christians.

	08-07-2002 09:00									#194
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quote: According the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are more crimes committed against religious people then non-religious people each year.

Even if this were true, could this possibly be because there are more religious people in the US than non-religious people?

	08-07-2002 09:08									#195
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Can anyone find an International source for this? It should be a government source in order to be trusted. I tried the UN site, but have turned up nothing. Perhaps a more thourogh search will do the trick.

	08-07-2002 09:13									#196
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Are you willing to admit that your previous statements about crime in the US were wrong?

	08-07-2002 09:14									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Are you willing to admit that your previous statements about crime in the US were wrong?

Not until have trusted information saying that it is.

	08-07-2002 09:17									#198
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So on the one hand you say "It should be a government source in order to be trusted." and then you say that the link you posted cannot be trusted even though it is from the US gov't.

Basically, you have no facts to back up your claim that more crimes are committed against religious people than non-religious people.

	08-07-2002 09:20									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai So on the one hand you say "It should be a government source in order to be trusted." and then you say that the link you posted cannot be trusted even though it is from the US gov't. Basically, you have no facts to back up your claim that more crimes are committed against religious people than non-religious people.

It IS a trusted source. It's just that it doesn't really say that the majority of crime in America comes from non-religious people; it only says that their are more hate crimes commited against religious people than their are against non-religious people. I tried looking for this, but have turned up nothing.

	08-07-2002 09:24									#200
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That proves absolutely nothing unless you prove that the majority of Americans aren't religious.

	08-07-2002 09:24									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 it only says that their are more hate crimes commited against religious people than their are against non-religious people.

Where does it say that? I didn't see anything in the report about that. Can you provide a quote to back up your statement?

	08-07-2002 09:25									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Where does it say that? I didn't see anything in the report about that. Can you provide a quote to back up your statement?

Look at the numbers. It's on page 2.

	08-07-2002 09:30									#203
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You have misunderstood the stats. There is nothing to indicate that there are more crimes against religious people than non-religious people.

Time to admit that you made a mistake.

	08-07-2002 09:31									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai You have misunderstood the stats. There is nothing to indicate that there are more crimes against religious people than non-religious people. Time to admit that you made a mistake.

Alright then, prove that I made a mistake.

	08-07-2002 09:34									#205
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Tingkai, could you please quote this post. "Einstein" here put me on the ignore list a while back for asking for crazy things like sources.

quote: According the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are more crimes committed against religious people then non-religious people each year. This suggests that there is a general unhappiness and discontent among the non-religious population; otherwise, why would non-religious people feel that they need to commit crimes?

Assuming you have the correct statistics, you're ignoring that:
1. There are more religious people in the US than non-religious people.
2. Religious people certainly committ hate crimes against other religious people.

	08-07-2002 09:35									#206
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Already done. (edit: meaning that Cloud9's claim about the stats has been shot down.)

Your refusal to admit that you made a mistake, even though it has clearly been shown that you made a mistake, undermines your credibility. You merely demonstrate that you refuse to accept any facts that conflict your world view.

	08-07-2002 09:38									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Already done. Your refusal to admit that you made a mistake, even though it has clearly been shown that you made a mistake, undermines your credibility. You merely demonstrate that you refuse to accept any facts that conflict your world view.

If you cannot provide proof that I made a mistake, then I can only assume that you have made a mistake.

Ramo is on my Ignore List, btw.

	08-07-2002 09:39									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Tingkai, could you please quote this post. "Einstein" here put me on the ignore list a while back for asking for crazy things like sources. Assuming you have the correct statistics, you're ignoring that: 1. There are more religious people in the US than non-religious people. 2. Religious people certainly committ hate crimes against other religious people.

Sure.

	08-07-2002 09:40									#209
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Oh sh*t - he's brought this thread back

	08-07-2002 09:41									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 If you cannot provide proof that I made a mistake, then I can only assume that you have made a mistake. Ramo is on my Ignore List, btw.

If Ramo is on your ignore list then why are you mentioning him?

I have shown that you made a mistake. The problem is you refuse to admit it. Isn't there something in your religion about pride being a sin?