01-07-2002 16:10									#1
	Babylonian War opperation Suffering from ads?

Babylonian war:

change production in Akkad from temple to spy(rush it-->37G)
rush the Cavalry in Babylon(136G)
rush spy in Ashur(72G)



turn 1812:
-use a first cavalry in Ashur to kill the bab settler (green circle)
take a second cavalry to take a look at black space near Nineveh(red 1)+return home if he needs to fight(ie after he won )
(and kill units in the open if there are some hiding in the darkà we can not allow reinforcements)
take the 3 unit(if there is no unit that needs to be attacked by unit 2 then send unit 2 to the same destination )and send it to backup the cavalry west of Nineveh.
-send Bombay cavalry in Madras to Ashur
-send one riflemen from bangalore to Ashur(he will be defending when all cavalry are fighting)
-send the 2 cavalry from Delhi to Ashur(and take a look at the productionspeed of the riflemenà just one turn slower then growing)
-send the Babar spy to the front(ashur)
-use the Babylonian spy to investigate Ur(and retreat then)(light blue)

You have 3 days to vote.

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Last edited by shade on 01-07-2002 at 21:19

	01-07-2002 16:15									#2
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turn 1814:
use the 3 spies to try to get rid of the city-walls of UR(first try to use the spy stored in the fortress(1), then the one rushed in akkad(2) and if all fails try the one next to Ashur(she can just get to UR(3) )
IF we succeed in killing those walls à send all cavalry we have in the neaburhood on Ur
(we are talking about 5 or 6 unitsà should be enough)
*Cavalry in fortress
*2 cavalry(or 3 if there was nothing that needed to be killed outside Nineveh) west of Nineveh
*cavalry in Akkad
*Cavalry rushed in Babylon
IF we didn’t succeedà bring cavalry to the fortress and (rush-)build more spies and try again
(btw we have >5000G so some spies rushing isn’t a problem)

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	01-07-2002 16:18									#3
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turn1816-->???:
(I continue as if we conquered UR(if not this turn should be pushed back till we have))
When we have conquered UR the bribe-cost will go down quite a bità I suggest bribing their 2 remaining cities(we have enough money to do so…My guess is that we can bribe the remaining cities for less the 1000G)
Nineveh isn’t that big and the other remaining city won’t be that big toà to find the other city I suggest using our cavalry to explore the dark


Voila the entire campaign...I don't think there is much that could go wrong and even if something goes wrong it's only a temporary setback.

Shade,ESMC

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	01-07-2002 16:37									#4
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great plan. but what about that pm i sent you?

	01-07-2002 16:51									#5
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Looks good

Kill the settler with the non-vet Cavalry.

	01-07-2002 17:03									#6
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A couple of points:

Do we realy need all the cavalry from India for this campaign?

As we are planning on bribing the remains of the Babs we surely dont need them.

I propose we send 1 rifleman from Babar and one from Bangalore to Ashur for defence.

Keeping the spy in Babar for bribing barbs in case they wonder east.

The Cavalry we dont need to defend we can ship with the transport being build in New Castellon to Citadel, picking up units from Rivertown island on the way.

	01-07-2002 17:35									#7
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower great plan. but what about that pm i sent you?

I just replied, I would suggest waiting sometime with that...those Vet clads are quite good and we'll need them much in our Carth war.
And the extra movement from Lighthouse are used in my calculations for our Carthagian invasion.

quote: A couple of points: Do we realy need all the cavalry from India for this campaign? As we are planning on bribing the remains of the Babs we surely dont need them.

no but they are backup if things go wrong.

quote: Keeping the spy in Babar for bribing barbs in case they wonder east.

those barbs aren't a problem
and we can always rush an other spy...I just want to make sure we have enough spies to take down those walls in UR and make sure we can start bribing as fast as possible.

Shade

	01-07-2002 22:20									#8
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No need to explore with cavalry! The bridge southeast of Ur allows quick access to the river there. With a spy (moves 9 tiles by road), it will be easy to move another tile or two, reveal the rest of their map, and then try to tear down the walls back at Ur.

Is there any plan to quell the unrest near Babar and Dortmund?

	02-07-2002 06:08									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq No need to explore with cavalry! The bridge southeast of Ur allows quick access to the river there. With a spy (moves 9 tiles by road), it will be easy to move another tile or two, reveal the rest of their map, and then try to tear down the walls back at Ur.

that looks to me like a rivermouth yes but does not extend in the direction you want,might not be that clear with the zoom.

quote: Is there any plan to quell the unrest near Babar and Dortmund?

That's only a minor problem, I'll do some suggestion to our prez how it could be handled, nothing to worry about.
(the suggetsion will probably be: wait to see were they are heading--> build spy--> recruite them )

Shade

	02-07-2002 12:31									#10
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Just a few points (from FINALLY looking at the save ) on the movements set in motion in 1812:

-The Cavalry moving from Madras to Ashur will arrive in 1816 with 2/3 a move left
-Rifleman from Bangalore to Ashur arrives in 1818 with 2/3 a move left
-2 Cavalry from Delhi to Ashur arrive in 1816 with 2/3 a move left
-Spy from Babar to Ashur arrives in 1816 with 2 2/3 moves left

I assume these Cavalry are only reinforcements for if we somehow have a problem taking Babylon quickly? Otherwise are they moving here because it is closaer to Carthage?

1814 moves
-The two Cavalry west of Nineveh - will they be left on the hills IMMEDIATELY West of Nineveh? Otherwise they will be left on open grassland or plains.

Also, a quick idea of my own:

There are 4 Cavalry in the cities in the old Roman Empire (East of this continent), that could be put onto a Transport and sent through towards Carthage. Also, we could rush two more Cavalry for around 220 gold, and another two for 420 gold. What do you think? Or do we need some Cavalry in these cities?

Premier of Apolytonia
MrWIA.

	02-07-2002 13:48									#11
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Great plan, but all of the other plans still need to be thought over!

	02-07-2002 15:26									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Just a few points (from FINALLY looking at the save ) on the movements set in motion in 1812: -The Cavalry moving from Madras to Ashur will arrive in 1816 with 2/3 a move left -Rifleman from Bangalore to Ashur arrives in 1818 with 2/3 a move left -2 Cavalry from Delhi to Ashur arrive in 1816 with 2/3 a move left -Spy from Babar to Ashur arrives in 1816 with 2 2/3 moves left I assume these Cavalry are only reinforcements for if we somehow have a problem taking Babylon quickly? Otherwise are they moving here because it is closaer to Carthage?

their main goal is backup for if things go wrong, If nothing goes wrong there still are some caravel close,so they can be shipped to the Carth-island

quote: 1814 moves -The two Cavalry west of Nineveh - will they be left on the hills IMMEDIATELY West of Nineveh? Otherwise they will be left on open grassland or plains.

You might think this is creazy but they are intended to stay on the plains(in 1812!!!!).
There is 1 cavalry on a plain that can't move anymore this turn,I suggest getting 1 or 2 more Cavalry from Ashur to that place and the next turn(1814) if the walls are down they can attack Ur full strength, If the wall's are still standing they have to be send to the fortress SW of Ur(there is 1 cavalry in it now). I know there is a risk they might send out a 2xmove unit, but if we place them on those hills they will attack the units.
(If our prez thinks the risk is to big he can put the 1or2 other cavalry on the grasslandsquare just south of the current location==> they will be able to attack Ur with 4/3 movementpoints )

quote: Also, a quick idea of my own: There are 4 Cavalry in the cities in the old Roman Empire (East of this continent), that could be put onto a Transport and sent through towards Carthage. Also, we could rush two more Cavalry for around 220 gold, and another two for 420 gold. What do you think? Or do we need some Cavalry in these cities?

I don't think we need them in those cities(maybe just leave one or 2 of them behind you never know what the AI(game) might throw at us.
The others can be send to the Carthagian Island

Shade

	02-07-2002 16:04									#13
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As Minister of City's I strongly suggest kepping a decent size defence force in the roman city's.

We wouldnt want to loose one to barbarians

	02-07-2002 16:09									#14
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atawa you are right!

	02-07-2002 16:48									#15
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What does it matter if we lost a city to barbs for one turn then bribe it back for next to nothing

	02-07-2002 19:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by shade that looks to me like a rivermouth yes but does not extend in the direction you want,might not be that clear with the zoom.

Irrelevant.

Spies have 2 square visibility - from that first river square, the rest of their map is revealed.

	03-07-2002 00:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey What does it matter if we lost a city to barbs for one turn then bribe it back for next to nothing

I guess you want more foreign civ's to play with

Seriously, the initial attack destroys improvements, and when bribed back its 2 sizes smaller

	03-07-2002 03:33									#18
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Seriously the game will be over in about 10 turns if the barbs take a city and we bribe it back and its 2 sizes smaller will not change a bloody thing.

	03-07-2002 07:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by shade You might think this is creazy but they are intended to stay on the plains(in 1812!!!!). There is 1 cavalry on a plain that can't move anymore this turn,I suggest getting 1 or 2 more Cavalry from Ashur to that place and the next turn(1814) if the walls are down they can attack Ur full strength, If the wall's are still standing they have to be send to the fortress SW of Ur(there is 1 cavalry in it now). I know there is a risk they might send out a 2xmove unit, but if we place them on those hills they will attack the units. (If our prez thinks the risk is to big he can put the 1or2 other cavalry on the grasslandsquare just south of the current location==> they will be able to attack Ur with 4/3 movementpoints ) Shade

Thanks for the clarification of things above - I thought I could see what you were doing anyway, I just wanted to make sure your intentions are clear to me.

About those Cavalry being placed in such a vulnerable area - admittedly Babylon lost a fair few units (I expect ) in the attack on Babylon and Akkad, but it may still be a risk.
However, I must bow before the superior advice of the SMC: as long as the people and I realize the risk being taken.

Premier of Apolytonia
MrWIA.

	03-07-2002 13:40									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey What does it matter if we lost a city to barbs for one turn then bribe it back for next to nothing

It would be a lost of presige to lost a city to the barbs!

	03-07-2002 15:26									#21
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Globaly a good plan !
About the number of cavalries used, it's prudence !
I think they must be ready, but if the spy look at Ur shows there a few units, they may be sent to Girba for transporting to Carthage !
About exploring the dark face of the country, remember that spies have a larger view than cavalry to see units around !
For further transports, we have to accelerate the construction of the railways on this island !

	03-07-2002 18:26									#22
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quote: Originally posted by James Adams It would be a lost of presige to lost a city to the barbs!

Perhaps you are right, we don't want the computer laughing at us do we.

	04-07-2002 17:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey Perhaps you are right, we don't want the computer laughing at us do we.

Sorry, I meant for ourself and other who come to this forum!

	04-07-2002 23:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by JCP Globaly a good plan ! About the number of cavalries used, it's prudence ! I think they must be ready, but if the spy look at Ur shows there a few units, they may be sent to Girba for transporting to Carthage !

The main problem here is the incertainty of how long it will take our spies to kill those walls?
*destroying walls it something with a lower succesrate then other things
*destroying something in a capital also has a lower succes-rate then in other cities...
-->there is a very small chance those 3 spies aren't enough(and we will only know that when they have done their thing)...
so if the research tells us the city has(eg 4 defenders+building something) and our attacks fail we will first need to get new spies...by the time they are finished I'm sure the AI will have added some defenders to Ur=> even if we would rush new spies immediatly there could easilly be 6 units to defend Ur...I hope we don't need them, but I know Murphy's Law .

estimate for a worst case scenario:
we only have 1/4 chance of succes per spy(1/2 for the walls and 1/2 for the city beeing a capital...I'm not sure if they accumulate but this is just a WCS)
42% chance of failure
(by 1/2 chance of succes)
12.5% chance of failure
definatly not zero=possible.

I'll send my report today or tomorow.

Shade