01-07-2002 23:32									#1
	The Vulture Strategy Suffering from ads?

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but thought I'd throw it out there for fun.

In my latest Deity game (as the Aztecs, natch) I'm letting all the "big boys" (I'm the 5th ranked civ in terms of score) get into the fights. I simply send over settlers & Mech to the conflict area, and when one civ takes down a 20+ city, it leaves a large amount of "grey area" around the converted city. I then simply plunk down the settler in a well appointed "no man's land" (with 2-3 mech) then build temples & cathedrals.

Maybe you can call me a camp follower as this amounts to simply trailing the biggie's armies and filling in the "non colored areas" but no one seems to care...

Later on, they tend to raze each other's cities (I guess because the culture is too high and the AI knows that the cities will flip) and things get really juicy.

Last edited by Geekinstein on 01-07-2002 at 23:56

	01-07-2002 23:40									#2
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This is a very effective way to gain access to resources and luxuries. I do it often, even when I'm the top dog. The key is to be prepared to take advantage of these situations. As I normally play on standard maps/continents, this usually involves settler teams on boats sitting offshore, waiting for an opening.

One thing I will say, though, is that if you culture bomb and steal the AI's resources/luxuries, they will get pissed at you. Every time I've set up foreign outpost cities to grab luxuries, I've been attacked shortly thereafter.

-Arrian

	01-07-2002 23:44									#3
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Is there a way to use that for GLs, like your Archer / Spearman pairs?

	02-07-2002 00:19									#4
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quote: Is there a way to use that for GLs, like your Archer / Spearman pairs?

Huh?

-Arrian

	02-07-2002 01:27									#5
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This is definitely a great way to claw your way back into a game! Like Arrian said though, the AI will attack in short order if Resources or Luxuries are muscled away from their own cities.

I remember GOTM02 where I planted about 40 cities on another continent following in the wake of a few civ's combined armies (mine included). I filled in every crack in the cultural borders, and then rushed improvements to wrestle away control of all the resources in the area. The English, who had a ROP and MPP with me attacked because of it, taking just about all my cities I had just built. It was pretty funny to watch the replay as all the cities had been built within a turn or two, and then they vanished a couple of turns later. The English lost all of their cities a bit later of course...

	02-07-2002 01:40									#6
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Arrian, wasn't it you who started one of the tourney games with this trick? Send an Archer and a Spear out into danger's way, specifically to get the Archer up to elite ASAP?

I was just thinking that your approach to cities on other continents was also a good way to rapidly promoting your later troops.

Hmmm... GL creation as a function of the concentration of enemy forces. The more, the faster, the merrier.

In other words, once they attack, don;t stay totally buttoned up in the city. Send out a MA / MI pair, and try to use that 1 MA as much as possible.

Sorta like my ridiculous attack on Babylon in I think mini-II... rather than defend from the cities, I put forward outposts on hills. As huge stacks of Longbow and rifle came at me, they either attacked, which the MI had no problems with, or the went for the city, in which case probably half got mauled by ZOC. The remainder were easy pickings for MA, and generated a bunch of GLs...

I think it worked better than if I had stayed in the city. I guess my point is, if you KNOW that city is gonna get attacked at some point, rather than just buttoning up create a defensible outpost where enemy troops will mass. That's where the GLs will come.

	02-07-2002 18:26									#7
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Theseus,

Nah, the archer/spear thing wasn't my idea. I used something like it in my most recent game to generate a GL, though. It started out as an archer attack, but I was eventually forced to bring up a spear to protect my archers.

I still intend to post on that game, it's just that I was busy last night (softball game) and I still need to get some more screenshots and dates from the saves.

-Arrian

	02-07-2002 20:58									#8
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The AI get's pissed if you culture bomb? I do that all the time. It's usually when the AI plunks down a city right where my settler is headed.

	02-07-2002 23:20									#9
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I'm not Soren, so I don't know the internal workings of it, but my experience tells me that if I put down a city in "no man's land" in between AI cities, and my culture borders expand to take away luxuries or resources, they will react angrily. Every single time I've established such overseas outposts (I do it often, I'm quite the Imperialist), I've been attacked shortly thereafter.

-Arrian

	02-07-2002 23:33									#10
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...interesting.

In my game, nothing happened until I plunked down next to an aluminum can and then Bismark grabs a few of my workers. But the conquering French (who've been razing all the Smurf's 25+ cities), to this point, could care less...

...I'd guess only the "original owner" gives a rats?

	02-07-2002 23:43									#11
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I don't think that's the case. My most recent example of it:

I built two outposts inbetween formerly Aztec (now American) cities. The Aztecs were dead. I built temples in each city (among other things), and the borders expanded such that I "stole" two different luxuries from Abe. Abe hit me a couple of turns later with everything he had.

-Arrian

	03-07-2002 00:27									#12
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Arrian, that's just sheer cost benefit calculation on the AIs part (albiet poorly done).

Cost of getting Arrian to trade resource (and percieved value of resource): High or impossible

Benefit of attacking city and taking resource: High

Where the poorly done part comes in is that it failed to recognize that it was dealing with Arrian here, so even in the off chance that it suceeds in taking the city, all h*** would break loose as the full productive might of your empire was dedicated to wiping them off the face of the planet.

Or to put it another way, cost of weakening its offensive punch agianst your defenses: Lethal

	03-07-2002 00:32									#13
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Arrian, I'm not being clear...

The French have cleared huge swaths of area and I'm just plunking down cities in open area, not next to anything (3-8 squares away, in fact)...

i.e. Frenchies go on lopping heads while I keep plopping 'steads...

...until I plop next to a tin can (and then two pitiful blue archers come out and snag two workers - BTW, Joanie and I are driving around in Mod armor)...

..so the Q is, will Joanie turn on me if I'm not grabbing her goodies? Could be an interesting fight tho, as she has tons of Mod Armor and I'm building my defensive cities (two squares away from each other with 2-3 Mech each dusted with armor and linked by rail)...

Last edited by Geekinstein on 03-07-2002 at 00:45

	03-07-2002 01:07									#14
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Geekinstein,

Joany might turn on you, but not because of your city building per se. Your increase in territory and # of cities will most likely boost your power ranking, which may cause your relations with the French to sour (the AI never likes powerful civs, whether they're human or AI run). But so long as you trade with her and keep an eye on her attitude, it is unlikely that she will just up and attack you. Unlikely, but certainly not impossible (I've been sneak attacked by a polite Joan before).

I see now that our examples were significantly different. I was blatantly stealing luxuries from the AI, whereas you're just filling empty space.

My border expansions actually pushed back the AI's border. The captured Aztec towns had only the 1 tile wide influence, and my cities were built directly next to the AI's border. When I built my temples, their borders were pushed right back to the towns themselves - the tile between my cities and theirs became mine. Those tiles had furs and spices on them. Furs and spices the Americans were using. This triggered a violent response.

Like Fitz said, that's reasonable (but, by the same logic, so is my practice of luxury stealing, since the going price for EITHER furs or spices would have been all five of my luxuries, two techs and money). Actually, the AI's knight attack actually scared me briefly. I had 3-4 musketmen in each town, plus some Cavalry. Each town had barracks and walls, and one of them was on a hill. My galleons were bringing additional muskets, cav and cannon. Things got a little dicey at the town not built on a hill. I lost a few muskets there.

-Arrian

	03-07-2002 01:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Geekinstein i.e. Frenchies go on lopping heads while I keep plopping 'steads...

That's great. I love that line.

	03-07-2002 02:01									#16
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Arrian,

For fun, I'm doing your culture bomb to the Romans who have a island of three cities inside my sea of Aztec mechs/cities, daring them to strike me (Caesar is at war with 5 other civs) and yet no war. Is the AI rsmart enough to realize I'll do a beer can on him in this situation?

BTW, I'm now the 2nd civ in ranking (behind Hiawatha)...and I'm now building a Maginot Line to welcome Joanie's boys...

dunk999: it's all those rap ditties I listen to whilst dueling traffic jams here in SoCal (da rappas are in da udder cahs)