02-07-2002 20:33									#1
	luxury trading Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've cornered the world market in wines, but cannot find any buyers. Why not? (v1.21)

I'm playing a modified marlamap as the French. There are 14 other civs left ~300ad. Only one other civ will buy wines on a per turn payment. Nobody else will offer more than a world map or 1g. For some civs, it isn't surprizing - they have only 7 towns, are 4 techs behind, and I've already milked them for all their gold. But at least 6 civs (appear to) have a per turn gold surplus, many cities, and trail me by no more than 2 techs, if even that. In particular, the Americans are puzzling - they have about 18 cities, but no incense, no furs, no wine, no spice, no gems, and now no dyes (I like privateers with bombard ). Yet they won't offer more than a map for wines or gems or furs.

In v1.16, I had no trouble selling off every extra luxury I had. Sometimes for less than I'd like, but somebody would pay. No nobody will. Boo hoo. Any insights?

	02-07-2002 20:42									#2
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first off, they might be poor. check how much money they have.

if theyre behind in techs, they're probably too poor to buy stuff anyway.

if they only have 7 townson MARLA's map, it's probably fialry early in the game, and again, they could be poor.

also, what size are their towns?

do they have their own luxuries?

do you think they'd need your luxuries to keep people happy?

as the game goes on they'll pay more, simply because they need them.

hope that helps.

	02-07-2002 20:53									#3
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I have similar feelings about 1.21 and lux trading. AI seems to charge me much more than they will pay in similar circumstances.

In current game, Egypt is the top of the histogram, larger than my civ, ahead on tech, and unwilling to trade two lux from me for one from them. It's probably partly because the last few lux are worth more than the first few if you have marketplaces. But that is unrealistic. Bill Gates can buy his cheap California wine at the same price as I do.

Do you think the AI in your game was still in depotism? If so, they may not give a damn about lux -- yet.

	03-07-2002 01:21									#4
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX first off, they might be poor. check how much money they have.

I check almost every turn - those few larger civs have additional gold coming in.

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX if theyre behind in techs, they're probably too poor to buy stuff anyway. if they only have 7 townson MARLA's map, it's probably fialry early in the game, and again, they could be poor. also, what size are their towns?

These are the weenies I don't really expect to be able to trade. The ones I'm concerned about have 12-20 cities (none larger than 12, as sanitation is not quite here yet).

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX do they have their own luxuries?

Most have at least one, some have two. India even has 3, iirc. Which brings up:

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX do you think they'd need your luxuries to keep people happy? as the game goes on they'll pay more, simply because they need them.

Maybe it's just a matter of waiting for them to grow larger... thanks!

	03-07-2002 05:45									#5
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This might not be applicable to your situation, (this time) but something to keep in mind about luxuries:

The more citizens a civ has the more luxuries needed to keep 'em happy. They get more valuable as time goes by.

If you are behind on techs or gold or whatever and you have '0 something to trade' (meaning that a '0' shows up on your trade screen, you can still trade that item. AI will usually give you more for it since it will deprive you of it. (Note: AI will never trade his 0 resourse) Sometimes you can get 2 or 3 techs gold, etc. for your 0 available resource. And if you are trading your last luxury for 2 other luxuries, you still come out 1 lux. ahead. This works for strategic resources too. AI will pay premium for your last horses even though no one is using them any more.

I know this doesn't really help when you have luxuries that you can't get rid of. Just wait, like the wine you have it vast supply, it will get better with time.

	03-07-2002 22:18									#6
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quote: Originally posted by steven8r AI will pay premium for your last horses even though no one is using them any more.

I've had horse and iron deals last into the modern era. Only 3 or 5 gold per turn, but for half the game it adds up!

Things may be looking up. While nobody wants wine yet, I have turned into a luxury hog. I'd modified the game to have the greeks start in south america. After trading maps with everybody, the Indians' map finally revealed spice in indonesia; the greeks' map revealed dyes and gems in south america. (Tho I know they are there, I make it a point to not go someplace until I can see it on my map) Using caravels, I have beat the AI to those luxuries. Indonesia is completely empty, save the japanese in the philippines and one indian city in malaysia. South america has filled around me, but indonesia is mine to fill - I have privateers on their way to sink any AI boats going that way. 2 dyes, 2 gems, and 4 spice so far...

I'll just build bad guys and wait for the AI to grow.

	04-07-2002 03:05									#7
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could the answer be the old "hit the leader"-strategy?

in my last two(2) games:
in first one I was leading the Greeks and we were at 5. position (in points). we had lots of extra luxuries and others were buing everything.

in second one I was leading the Greeks (I allways play as Greeks ) and we were at 1. position leading by over 1000 points. we had lots of extra luxuries (we held all the silks, diamonds, furs and incenses) and nobody was buying them.