03-07-2002 09:34									#1
	Why do they make game boxes so small now? Get a bigger avatar today!

all the stuff for NWN barely fits in

I wasn't even expecting a manual because there was so little room.

How can a company have 4 cd's (like baldur's gate2) and fit a manual in those boxes? '

Now companies have yet another excuse not to include manuals in their games

I want dictionary sized manuals with my games

Why did they enforce this limitation? Yes I know it saves shelf space which is good. And some games have very little material in the box, but some games do.

	03-07-2002 12:44									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have no idea.

But i think that only old re-released budget games should be in those small boxes.
All the new games should include manuals, maps, notes and other goodies..that will also lower piracy. There's no difference in burning an ISO at your friends house or buying it in a store...

	03-07-2002 12:53									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I hate big manuals ... if I want to read a novel I'll go and get one.

What I hate even more, however, is those stupid flimsy floppy paper sleeves that the CD's for NWN come in! Civ3 was the same!
It annoys me.
They are so awkward to put away again when you want to swap games.
Grrrr.....

	03-07-2002 14:43									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The reason why stores like these DVD-cases (I believe you are talking about them) is that they take away less space on the shelves.

For some games there is no need for a big manual and in these cases I'm fine with DVD-cases but I hate them for games like HoMM4.

Fortunately some game companies have started to publish their games in boxes that have the same size as DVD-cases but are much thicker - this way they fit onto store-shelves and allow a good-sized manual.

	03-07-2002 15:31									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

cheaper shipping cost, more boxes can be shipped at a time now

	03-07-2002 17:28									#6
	I hate excessive packaging Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The DVD boxes are good, but I'd rather take it a step further and just have the jewelcase - or better yet, sell it online and let you download it.


As for manuals, I'd take pdf over paper anyday - but I prefer games with 'online' help, ie. a good set of tool-tips and a civelopedia kind of help menu.

	03-07-2002 17:43									#7
	Support Apolyton

If the shipping is cheaper then the games ought to be cheaper, but wait that would gain the consumers and not the producers how silly of me.

	03-07-2002 18:51									#8
	Got spare money?

Now, it would be nice to have some games you could purchase and download (near instant shipping), and they would probably cost a lot less if they didn't need some sort of publisher. Only that would probably make piracy too easy ().

edit: ack... :confused:) = :confused

	03-07-2002 19:04									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don't think that piracy can get any easier then it already is.

	03-07-2002 19:08									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's I believe a new industry standard. From dragon.ca:

quote: Starting in 2002 all PC Games will be packaged in DVD cases or in boxes with the same front dimensions as a DVD case.

The reasons are simple - smaller shipping costs, less space take up on displays, less room taken up in inventories. So they have seriously reduced the costs of transport and storage which hopefully keep their costs down, allowing prices to at least stay stagnant for consumers.

	03-07-2002 19:18									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: I don't think that piracy can get any easier then it already is.

-Of course it can. Companies could post all software online for download, and ask people to kindly send them $50 or £35 or €50 after successfully downloading.

	03-07-2002 22:28									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

personally , if they would just ship the game without all the crap iwould be happier....probably save a few bucks....

	03-07-2002 23:29									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

pdf manuals?

How can you read those while playing the game? Almost all games I have crash/freeze up when you minimize them. They don't like that.

And reading computer screen text hurts my eyes. I can barely stand reading Apolyton.

grrrr

	03-07-2002 23:39									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Print out the .pdfs

	03-07-2002 23:47									#15
	Re: I hate excessive packaging Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Osweld The DVD boxes are good, but I'd rather take it a step further and just have the jewelcase - or better yet, sell it online and let you download it.

I have a completely different opinion, the more I get for my money, the better: a thick maual - nice, a big printed techtree - very good, an additional unit chart - excellent.

If they would actually make games with less packaging cheaper, then I might change my opinion but that is not the case.

quote: As for manuals, I'd take pdf over paper anyday - but I prefer games with 'online' help, ie. a good set of tool-tips and a civelopedia kind of help menu.

I'd rather have a manual that I can put next to the keyboard and read while I play, something that I don't have to read in front of the screen.

	03-07-2002 23:56									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: I'd rather have a manual that I can put next to the keyboard and read while I play, something that I don't have to read in front of the screen.

-Yeah, I like having something to read on my way back from the store... except when I'm driving.

	04-07-2002 06:02									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think its all been said already. The initial drive apparently came from the retailers who wanted to fit more units per shelf, more shelves per rack etc but once they got all the publishers persuaded that big odd shaped boxes cost more to produce than they sold extra units it became a reality. Now that games like NWN have shown its possible to put a quality manual into a case that smal I'm sold on the idea. I need my papaer but my shelves were getting jammed full too so downsizing is cool.

	04-07-2002 06:42									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Didn't HOMM4 come in a nifty NWN-shaped box?
No quality documentation there.

Or shouldn't I get you started again on HOMM4's pdf manual Grumbold?

Some publishers just can't be bothered. More shame them.

	04-07-2002 07:31									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

NWN's manual is decent.

But I want more!!

They have decent charts at the back. but not a real spell description in the spells section.

I want the format that shows up when you push the ? on the spell book. It shows the range/duration etc.

And BTW magic circle of alignment shows 1 Hour/level in the game but it only lasts for a minute or so. Error? I assume so.

	04-07-2002 08:59									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't mind they make boxes smaller, some games have excessive packaging.

I also don't mind the lack of manuals if there are extensive help facilities that are easily accessible.

I just don't like Acrobat manuals.

	04-07-2002 09:03									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis Print out the .pdfs

Suppose the idea behind not including manuals is to conserve trees, printing out the .PDF's will have just the opposite effect. While a company can print manuals on recycled paper, how many people have that at home?

	04-07-2002 09:13									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

and think how much is wasted with 8 1/2 by 11" paper when a regular manual is printed on much smaller recycled paper.

	04-07-2002 13:07									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Suppose the idea behind not including manuals is to conserve trees, printing out the .PDF's will have just the opposite effect. While a company can print manuals on recycled paper, how many people have that at home?

-I don't know. I would just send the print job to the printer over in OIT where they print mass amounts of stuff for free

quote: and think how much is wasted with 8 1/2 by 11" paper when a regular manual is printed on much smaller recycled paper.

-True, but most people would probably not bother printing the .pdfs.

As for documentation, well depending on how close the game comes to 3rd edition rules, you could just buy a player's handbook.

	04-07-2002 14:24									#24
	Got spare money?

quote: Starting in 2002 all PC Games will be packaged in DVD cases or in boxes with the same front dimensions as a DVD case.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't mind they make boxes smaller, some games have excessive packaging.

...and some games just have no packaging other than the CD. I'm fine with the new size as long as they use the thicker box with a manual and extras (I would have almost written "other extras" here, hopefully a manual will never be considered an extra) for those games that need them. As for those games that don't need more than a thin manual, the DVD case is enough.

BTW what is that NWN everyone keeps talking about?

	04-07-2002 14:54									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dissident And BTW magic circle of alignment shows 1 Hour/level in the game but it only lasts for a minute or so. Error? I assume so.

I think it means one hour in the Game World, not in the Real World.

	04-07-2002 16:14									#26
	Suffering from ads?

The new cases don't really do much for displaying them on a bookshelf in a book-like manor, since the're just as thick as regular cases.

	04-07-2002 16:30									#27
	Suffering from ads?

quote: BTW what is that NWN everyone keeps talking about?

-A very nice RPG, that I will not get to play until I come home

	04-07-2002 20:06									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Neverwinter Nights - got it!

	04-07-2002 20:22									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah... I hear you get to go to Waterdeep in the game

	05-07-2002 01:09									#30
	Support Apolyton

Yes but I have other spells that are 1 hour/level and they last much longer (like 10 minutes or so).

anyways that is slightly off topic