03-07-2002 22:41									#1
	Mass Transit?? Take a cab. Increase the size of your Attachments

I used to think recycling was a waste of time. That not being the case, can anyone give good reasons why mass transit's not a waste of time. Thanks!!

	03-07-2002 23:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Totally eliminates pollution caused by high population.

Yes, an army of workers can usually deal with pollution pretty easily.

But less pollution means a lot less "Pollution has struck Beijing" "Pollution has struck Nanking" etc., at the beginning of each turn, always complimented by the hollywood-esqe rapid "camera movement" zooms onto random cities throughout your empire, known to cause even hardcore civers to occasionally reach for the dramamine .

Less pollution also means less time repositioning citizen laborers after the pollution is cleaned.

	03-07-2002 23:33									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Less polution also reduces the risk of having your huge city go into starvation mode.

	04-07-2002 05:51									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Mass Transit is GREAT builidng if you have 20+ pop cities.

On the other hand, Recycling center is usulay not worth, especialy is you already have Hover Dam (and thus less polluting Plants).

	04-07-2002 09:14									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Except for Aeson's recycling ploy.

	04-07-2002 10:40									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

Don't forget that by eliminating population-based pollution, Mass Transit also reduces the chance that global warming will occur. If you are going to be running a set of metropolises, then it definitely pays to use it.

	04-07-2002 15:39									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

If mass transit increased the productivity of a metropolis' workers, maybe it would be worth giving up other production to get it. I'm sort of convinced that it's better to give my captured workers a little exercise cleaning up pollution. I don't see much starvation due to pollution and with RR it doesn't take long for the workers to eliminate it.

	04-07-2002 16:40									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Are you joking.

If I had no Mass Transits in mine 20+ pop cities I would get new pollution every turn several times.

And that's painfull to micromanage with workers.

	04-07-2002 17:17									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Whats starvation mode?

I build them when I can just to keep down the anoyance of the pollution pop-up.

	04-07-2002 17:26									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

player1,
I have always built Mass Transit. My last marathon game I was often putting many workers into storage after they were on pollution duty and had nothing to do, and then a turn or two later Shift-P'ing. THAT was time consuming (especially since the vast majority of them were foreign workers and I was not an industrious civ).

If I had more pollution, I might have had LESS work to do!

	04-07-2002 19:24									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Jaybe, you could Shift-A your workers after you're done with them, it will do exactly as you do by hand. Clean up polution, after it's finished go back to sleep only to wake again when polution occurs.

BTW, I agree that the most useful thing of mass production is spending less time watching screen jumping and worker-allocation. But you have to pay for that, so I'd rather have patience each turn than to turn the tech-slider down

DeepO

	05-07-2002 00:16									#12
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Whats starvation mode? I build them when I can just to keep down the anoyance of the pollution pop-up.

It's not starvation mode per se...One or two tile being useless would led to food shortages if the city is not growing. I just call it starvation mode.

	05-07-2002 00:39									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

DeepO,
I DO NOT Shift-A my workers in the late game, because:

I lose track of them, and they are off doing something I sometimes specifically do NOT want to do, such as 'improving' some terrain in my borders that I do not want road/railed/deforested.

For example: A city is at stable population with irrigation and road, but rail will have it yo-yo up and starve down. Shift-A would most probably mess with that.

	05-07-2002 02:07									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe For example: A city is at stable population with irrigation and road, but rail will have it yo-yo up and starve down. Shift-A would most probably mess with that.

The advantage of shift-A (opposed to just A) is, that irrigations and mines don't get replaced, once they are there. So if the city radius is properly improved, you won't have a problem.

	05-07-2002 03:05									#15
	Support Apolyton

Yes Lucilla, I have used it (sparingly). I was just saying that I always get upset by what it occasionally does in late game -- there are particular things I do NOT want done on particular tiles.

Another example: I want woods in tiles that are not within a city radius. They are my 'parks', but they will not stay that way if I shift-A. BTW, your post did not address my specific example that you quoted.

Bottom line: I do not Shift-A in the late game.

	05-07-2002 03:41									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aeson's Recycling Ploy?? I searched and can't find it...

Wait... found it.... damn, what genius!

Last edited by 0bsidi0n on 05-07-2002 at 03:57

	05-07-2002 04:10									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

Jaybe, from a purist approach I can understand not putting workers on Shift-A. Indeed, very large cities can yo-yo a little. I don't mind that, as the automation is much too easy, I'm too lazy to manage all of them. Of course I too keep a bunch of them on manual for 'special' problems (even until the last turn).

Oh, but even if I'm not a purist, I do have large parks of forest in between cities (if, through circumstances I miss some tiles). Workers on Shift-A will not chop them, and workers on deforest (Ctrl-Shift-F, IIRC) don't touch them either. The only disadvantage is that those forest get RRed too, they aren't exactly romantic breathing room for the overcrowded cities.

DeepO

Last edited by DeepO on 05-07-2002 at 04:18

	05-07-2002 10:03									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

one problem with shift-A is that they'll RR tiles i don't want. If i have 2 coals, i'm only going to use one, and to prevent it from disapperaing, i'll pillage the road on the second coal. But shift-A workers will go and put road on it like good little lemmings.

	05-07-2002 15:59									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Also true. Roading resources is a bit of a problem. However, in the early game, workers are never automatic in my games, and my core cities get manually improved. After steam, most of them get put to auto.

If, at that time, I still have resources that are inside a city radius, I will improve the tile anyhow, as I want the bonusses from the resource (Coal especially, as it gives 2 extra shields). Whether I improve it, or the AI does it doesn't matter.

Resources outside of city radii I won't road explicitly or I should need the trade. But, I find that auto-workers are not pressed to do these as well, in most cases these will only get RR when all squares are improved, and the auto-workers are just RRing the free tiles. At that time I don't care, if I should lose a coal, I still have another, which is connected. So there is no gap of availability.

I concur that auto-workers are not perfect for every situation, and having them means you sometimes have to take some disadvantages as well, but I find them to good to leave alone. I play at large-huge maps, and controlling over 100 workers myself is just too tedious.

DeepO

	05-07-2002 16:23									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Using workers to remove pollution instead of preventing it by city improvements seems to be very much alike George W Bush's environmental policies... saying that "We have no proofs saying that cars and industries are causing global warming".

	05-07-2002 16:34									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ouch.. that hurts. Comparing me to dubya? I surely hope that I have more ethical environmental beliefs in real life!

But, I can't help it that this is an American game, which implies that any mean is good to reach a goal, and I find auto-workers practical environmentalists. They do cost less, both in money and in trouble (yeah, I know, more Bush-speak )

DeepO

	05-07-2002 17:57									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Another example: I want woods in tiles that are not within a city radius. They are my 'parks', but they will not stay that way if I shift-A. BTW, your post did not address my specific example that you quoted.

i thought i was the only one who did this

	05-07-2002 21:13									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe BTW, your post did not address my specific example that you quoted.

You are right, I didn't read carefully enough

	06-07-2002 04:59									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I agree