04-07-2002 16:37									#1
	Advice to Soren about tax slider optimizations Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The one problem with Civ3 AI is that it's pretty bad with Tax vs Science dillema.

AI often trades between themself but still most of them keep scientce at 80+%.
(uneffective stragegy, if you are not tech leader it's better to get some money and then to buy tech).
This behavior often makes them hronicaly broke.


Which means not enough money for upgrades or for buy rushing.
Also it means no money in diplomacy interacion (like getting extra lux. or strat. resouces).
And no money for some basic esp. missions.

And sometimes when AI has money, it spends it too easily (just rush those 10 units in peacetime or buy that unnessesary tech.) without keeping some reserve for some other tasks (like upgrades).



P.S.
And keeping negative income is just not enough rational stretgy.

	04-07-2002 17:47									#2
	And then there is the Science slider for the human!* Put an end to popups!

I would prefer at least the option to have a pop-up that optimizes your Science allocation to maintain the current research progress.

E.g., "Science allocation has been reduced to 20% (from 50%) to discover (X) in 1 turn." (It would also automatically adjust the allocation.)

("1 turn" might have been 2 or more).

This would at least draw attention so that the player could manually adjust the slider if he/she wanted to explore different rates, especially if it was more than 1 turn to go.

If the AI did this, they might actually have some money to use in trades and upgrades (the ones that seem to be consistently broke, that is).

BTW, when you do this, please document it in detail.

*This whole post is predicated on the belief that research overflows are not accumulated for the next research objective.

	04-07-2002 22:06									#3
	Tired of ads?

quote: BTW, when you do this, please document it in detail. *This whole post is predicated on the belief that research overflows are not accumulated for the next research objective.

wich AFAIK has never been confirmed?

	04-07-2002 22:41									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ever time I see there is only one turn left for a tech, I adjust the taxes/science so I get maximum money and still get the tech in one turn, I dont think science overflows...

	04-07-2002 23:17									#5
	Re: Advice to Soren about tax slider optimizations Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by player1 The one problem with Civ3 AI is that it's pretty bad with Tax vs Science dillema. AI often trades between themself but still most of them keep scientce at 80+%. (uneffective stragegy, if you are not tech leader it's better to get some money and then to buy tech). This behavior often makes them hronicaly broke. Which means not enough money for upgrades or for buy rushing. Also it means no money in diplomacy interacion (like getting extra lux. or strat. resouces). And no money for some basic esp. missions. And sometimes when AI has money, it spends it too easily (just rush those 10 units in peacetime or buy that unnessesary tech.) without keeping some reserve for some other tasks (like upgrades). P.S. And keeping negative income is just not enough rational stretgy.

well, I hope you realize that my goal is not to write an optimal AI but instead to write a fun AI. And if the AI went for a maximum tax strategy it would probably produce an unfun game. Someone, after all, has to do the research.

Indeed, the AI could do a lot more tech trading. I simply set it to a level I felt made the game most fun (meaning competitive but not impossible...)

Thus, I am sure there are a number of ways to improve the AI's use of the slider (and indeed, I have probably worked some in for the next patch), but one small change can drastically affect gameplay, so it's best to be conservative at this point.

	04-07-2002 23:34									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I like the tech trading rates post 1.21. All the AIs don't have the same tech all the time.

Alva & Jaybe, I believe it is firmly known that research doesn't overflow. Regoarrarr's thread about research rates discusses that in detail. I personally think the beakers should overflow. Afterall, doesn't research in one area eventually help us understand other technologies?

	04-07-2002 23:35									#7
	Re: Re: Advice to Soren about tax slider optimizations Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis I am sure there are a number of ways to improve the AI's use of the slider (and indeed, I have probably worked some in for the next patch), (...)

Yummy yummy, Soren. Any more details?

	05-07-2002 05:33									#8
	Re: Re: Advice to Soren about tax slider optimizations Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis Thus, I am sure there are a number of ways to improve the AI's use of the slider (and indeed, I have probably worked some in for the next patch), but one small change can drastically affect gameplay, so it's best to be conservative at this point.

Good things for next patch.

Still,
one thing that AI realy needs is to keep some small gold reserve to be used for special ocasions (not to spend almost all at once).

On the other hand,
being conservative can be good from your point of view.
It would be bad to get some bad results like pop rush suicide & non-fun tech trading in 1.17f patch.

But, since new expansion is coming maybe you could try some more liberal things for PTW.


P.S.
Thanks for reply Soren!

	05-07-2002 10:23									#9
	Re: Re: Advice to Soren about tax slider optimizations Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis well, I hope you realize that my goal is not to write an optimal AI but instead to write a fun AI.

Bring it on! Rawr.

Oh do I wish we could have a 'Soren's cut' of the final product vis a vis the AI. Make Uber weep for mercy on Emperor. Make Aeson restart looking for good terrain...

MP will be fun, but SP is something that can be played anytime, anywhere. It will always be there.

	05-07-2002 11:57									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Here I would like to point out once again to those people that nag and complain about Firaxis and the game that Firaxis' people prove time after time that they care about their work and they definitely discuss with the different boards and gamers issues and questions to continue improving the game.

So I say Thanks.

	05-07-2002 16:47									#11
	Suffering from ads?

One thing you can do Player 1 is to put a cap on the % amount the AI and human can put into research or tax under the various Governments. This is found under the Government tab in the editor.

For instance why don't you set the rate cap for despotism somewhere between 50 and 70%?

I'm the same as you, i think sometimes the AI puts too much into the research aspect and not enough into taxes and it was only your question here that made me think of this solution...

Thanks

Last edited by =DrJambo= on 05-07-2002 at 16:57

	05-07-2002 20:23									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I capped out the early gov types to 80%. This forces them to have a national treasury on the plus side, assuming that they have a decent sized empire. On monarchy, there's a few civs that have in excess of 2000 so they have money to buy techs and units.