05-07-2002 22:05									#1
	Ministry of the Military Campaign Thread Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Here are the current candidates:

Random Entity

I'll update this list as others join the race. This (as you could expect) is a thread for those in the Military Advisor race to post their positions and debate.

Last edited by Random Entity on 05-07-2002 at 22:18

	05-07-2002 22:20									#2
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It's a fragile time for Apolytonia. As our country draws ever closer to impending war, many factors should be taken into consideration. For the record, the DIA is not a completely pacifist party. We do support military plans such as Case Pink, for example, and we feel that some military action is necessary given our current position.

However, I believe that too much military force could eventually spell defeat for Apolytonia. The current Military Minister, UberKrux, shows far too much aggression in his actions. If he remains in his position, it's very likely that hasty and unplanned military procedures will take place. Yes, there are benefits to being an unstoppable foe, but the negatives are ever apparent: If we focus too much on military buildup, our nation's cultural and domestic values will whither. If we spread our forces too thin, we'll be easily defeated by others. Apolytonia needs a Military Advisor that can make calm and rational decisions based on our situation.

I am aware that I have little chance to win this election. But, citizens of Apolytonia, I urge to to consider one thing. UberKrux has boasted about his label as a 'genocidal maniac'. Stalin was a genocidal maniac. Would you have Stalin in command of your nation's military? Make the level-headed choice.

Last edited by Random Entity on 05-07-2002 at 22:43

	05-07-2002 22:25									#3
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Making comparisons of your opponent with certain historical figures is tacky.

	05-07-2002 22:37									#4
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It may be considered tacky to some, but there are always consistencies in history. Just something to consider.

	05-07-2002 22:52									#5
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quote: The current Military Minister, UberKrux, shows far too much aggression in his actions.

Um, examples?

Was it changing his plans to fit the will of the people? Was it accepting, even asking advice on our current situation?

quote: If he remains in his position, it's very likely that hasty and unplanned military procedures will take place.

He has said several times we are not currently prepared. He has given great care in NOT being irrational so far. Again, I ask for examples that show you this is where things are headed.

quote: If we focus too much on military buildup, our nation's cultural and domestic values will whither

So, give us YOUR VIEW, do not come in here bashing current administration. What IS a good balance? How many units do YOU consider an adequate force? How much finance (% upkeep/support) do you believe should be allotted to the military? Focus on the issues of THIS position, do not make this into an overall party agenda platform.

	05-07-2002 23:09									#6
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Random:
Do you support Case (Blue)? When specifically would you advocate going to war, and with whom? The Americans? If so, how many archers/spearmen should make up the attacking force?
Let's talk specifics here. I'm sensing that our War Minister might have a lot on his hands soon.

	05-07-2002 23:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Um, examples? Was it changing his plans to fit the will of the people? Was it accepting, even asking advice on our current situation? He has said several times we are not currently prepared. He has given great care in NOT being irrational so far. Again, I ask for examples that show you this is where things are headed.

"Glory Comes From Spilt Blood"? Do you call this objective and irrational? It is clear Uber considers war the 'beggining and the end' of our game. It would likely be very dangerous to have someone with such intense emotions lead many of our troops into needless battle.

MY view is that, once we execute Case Pink (or the current military plan), we play a defensive game that for the most part consists of a three or four unit city defense that will be upgraded whenever possible.
I just want to avoid any military action that would lead to our own defeat, and leave more of the budget to things like improvements, non-military unit production, and science. If we form a strong infrastructure, we will only need enough units so that a few can guard each city.
This isn't to say that the only military units should be in the cities. I DO support near-future troop movements, because if we ever plan to build our infrastrucutre we first need to gain more territory. The best time to go to war would be before either rival nation could build a strong enough defense to counter us. A plan that would garner us significant portions of America or France should suffice. Case Pink, and it's outline for Apolytonia's military future, is a well-thought plan that should suit our needs.
Uber has stated many times that if he suffers a defeat it would be because of another minister's incompetence, or because he hadn't been given enough troops. That is an absurd excuse in my opinion.
An effective military commander should be able to win with what he is given. I will use our troops to maximize survivability, and not waste them needlessly.

	05-07-2002 23:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Random Entity The current Military Minister, UberKrux, shows far too much aggression in his actions. If he remains in his position, it's very likely that hasty and unplanned military procedures will take place.

i'd like you to cite one in-game action to support this fact please. did i attack the french settler stack? no.

	06-07-2002 00:03									#10
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i believe you all know my platform already, and you've seen what i've done in office. i proposed plans, abandoned them after the public disagreed, and asked for support from the community.

after my plea to the people, sir ralph and nye and others helped to develop case pink (or teal), and the community has rallied behind it.

i'm not going to take shots at random entity, because i see no reason to.

the two of us are ideologically different. i'm in favor in early wars to prune / eliminate our enemies, and to secure a large empire. the early wars are the most important, and i do not intend to drop the ball.

i'll refresh you a little bit on my platform:

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor How do you consider yourself ? - The defender of our culture and industry - The expander of our riches - The guide to our consuest victory

if i had to choose one, i would say the expander of our riches.

my views on the miliraty aspect of civ are mostly offensive for the purpose of "manifest destiny" and resource aquisation. if we need horses, i dont mind smacking around the chinese to get them.

---

I am also in favor in signing Military Alliances with AI civs, so long as they aren't in my plans for domination .

if an AI civ isnt on our main continent, and is close enough to an enemy to annoy them, i'd be HAPPY to sign an military alliance, which not only helps the war front a little, it makes our two nations bond closer

i do NOT condone mutual protection pacts. again, it's not my final call, but i should have a decent say in this area. i dont want to commit troops to defend our neighbors unless the neighbor has provided us with a service (techs, resources) for a long time (trustworthy), bows before our might, and the diplo people wont let me crush them.

---

quote: Originally posted by Captain Would Candidate Uberkrux be willing to share with the public what his ideal units-to-cities ratio would be? What would be your ratio of defenders-to-cities and how large of an offensive "expeditionary" force would you aim to achieve? Do you station troops inside cities for extra defense, or on borderlands to prevent pillaging? Do you condone pillaging or razing of cities? Are your offensive tactics centred on the goal of capturing cities and resources (denying production) or of destroying armies (targeting dangerous units)? What percentage of our GNP would you suggest for military maintenance? Are you a barracks or a walls proponent?

2:1 at least (offensive). larger cities should build more units because fo increased production.

i usually station 2 defenders in important / border cities (spearman + warrior will due for a while).

in the beginning of the game (my term) i station units IN cities, because movement is often restirced.

i not only CONDONE pillaging, i order it. pillaging roads to resources and key irigation / mines is essential to fighting any war.

i am for the razing of cities if the cities are either:
IN OUR BORDERS or IN A "WRONG" SPOT

the imperial expansion minister shall aid me in determing if the AI has build a city in a bad spot

i am for total emilination of enemies, especially those on our home continent. i will often engage in "pillage wars", but they will only be small teams in addition to the main army taking out the cities.

GNP in a Despotism or monarchy early in the game shouldnt exceed 20% because you ge "free" units.

in a democracy or republic, the military should comprise anywhere from 30% to 60% of our GNP.

i have to choose between walls and barracks? i choose barracks.

hopefully our city planner will make the cities reach 7 real quick

---

obviously, our continent is rather large, and my old plans for manifest destiny are becomming less feasible. i still believe that we should secure a large portion of the continent for our glorious empire.

this post brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood. Heil Apolyton.

	06-07-2002 00:04									#11
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I thank you for laying out your ideas, finally. (random, that is)

I still suggest that it could have been done better without openly attacking current administration, but I have seen that being polite is not always on political agenda for many, so will let that pass.

Again, you are turning this into a party politic stand, however. Uber, however much he talks (which is mostly role-playing for those who haven't caught on) has been nothing but reasonable so far IN HIS ACTIONS. But, that is IMO. Remember, you are running for Military Minister. You bring up real life examples in your argument, so I will now use some myself. There is no military advisor ANYWHERE who would suggest anything such as a 'defensive game'. The way I see it, the Military Minister is there to PROMOTE military, and THEN do what is best with what he has been given. It is the job of the military to be prepared for an offensive, not to plan the best defense. Your units per city will not leave us prepared with enough standing military to launch any form of attack (or counter attack) at any of our enemies. You plan to execute case Pink (or Blue, whatever) and then go on defense? Why not continue on to the next target? Do you support oscilating wars?

These are my own opinions, however. You will not get my vote, not because of party issues, but because I see the Military Minister, ALL Ministers for that matter, as needing to advocate for their own field. I do not expect, or accept, a Military Minister who is content to 'play defense'. The Minister must make due with what he is given, that does not mean he shouldn't ask for more. Uber has done both.

"The best defense is a good offense"

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 06-07-2002 at 00:10

	06-07-2002 00:17									#12
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Uber's rhetoric is one thing... but his actual course of action has been pretty good so far. His record speaks for itself.

Sometimes he's a bit brusque, but I'd rather have a crass general glorying in blood if he keeps us secure than a gentlemen general who doesn't. Besides, his antics are entertaining!

although I am not a hawk, I would like to see Uber keep his position until at least Case Pink/Blue is carried through. Continuity is important to a smooth execution.

Also, I think the war ministry requires hawkishness, since I generally support peaceful builders for the other posts. There must be balance.

	06-07-2002 00:47									#13
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It seems to me Uber's been far from bloodthirsty here. Remember that as we've discovered more civs, he's adjusted his stance coolly and professionally. More like a cold-blooded killer than a rabid war-monger.
(I mean that in the best possible sense. )
No, what strikes me as being inflammatory here is Random's rhetoric.

	06-07-2002 01:19									#14
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yes, politics is a dirty game

mudslinging is entertaining but I think it's had more of a negative effect for random's cause than positive
but I'm glad random's running, wouldn't want Uber to be completely unopposed...

	06-07-2002 03:18									#15
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UberKrux must be our next Supreme Commander of the Military. This Random Entity man seems to be exaggerate the cases to gain himself the vote. His attempts to smear the good name of our Commanding General are in vain however. UberKrux will win! (The crowd claps enthusiastically for twelve hours straight)

	06-07-2002 04:33									#16
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UberKrux, although being a competent SMC, is not as perfect as some UFCs might think.
He vehemently tried to extend his powers at the expense of the city planner (by posting a not-so-legitiamte poll about letting conquered cities to the SMC for a time). He also tried to get in the way of the minister of Science by posting several polls intended to get the wheel (Tassadar made a true, official and objective poll after this).

If this was "just a game", only actions would matter. But this si democracy game, and Democracy is also about speeches. In our great Democracy Game, rhetorics does matter. Keep this in mind when you'll vote.

Even if there is some mud slinging, Random Entity shows responsibility in his positions, acknowledging war when it's needed, but he'll not uselessly petition for more units when we won't need them. This way, the city planner will go for more urgent tasks without interference. This is what I call responsibility. This is what I cal teamwork.

	06-07-2002 05:06									#17
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As an outsider currently.. I must say the following.

In his job, Uber has been extremely competent. I don't think much better could have been done by anyone up to date.

By that, I would give him my vote almost instantaneously.

However...

It is true that some of his attempts out of the game have had a tendency to look like they may take power away from other offices for his own office's benefit. I disagree with what those attempts would have accomplished, but I can't full out say Uber was wrong for doing them. He DID make rational points, and they were generally for the military benefit of our nation. It IS his job to keep our military interests safe, even at the cost of other ministers. I dont think it wrong at all to have ministers trying to keep their offices working in tip top shape. I think it is sad that it might reflect badly upon Uber that he was trying to make future SMC's jobs easier.

I like to see ministers battling over control of what might interest them. I think it is very much in the interest of the nation that we have ministers that not only cooperate, but are always looking out for their own interests.

Remember, Uber was elected SMC, not the City guy. He shouldnt care if the City guy has a harder job.. he should only care that we are safe. It is the city guy's job to tell the SMC to shutup if he is overstepping his bonds. It is not our job to frown upon anyone for trying to do a better job, as Uber has done.

Interesting, this campaign will be.

	06-07-2002 06:29									#18
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Will you be able to devote the time necessary to do a good job for the time of your term? Or will managing your estates, shopping for slaves, or some other preoccupation (RL) take you away from us?

2nd question, for the important positions... What levels of difficulty have you regularly won Civ3 at?

	06-07-2002 07:27									#19
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i've won at emperor two times, but i usually play monarch when i want a fun game. i find the monarch level challenging, and i dont see TOO MUCH blatent AI cheating.

over the next few months, i have the following plans:

July 9th -11th: i will be at an orientation session for my college.

August 20th: I leave for college, it may take me a little while to get settled.

and we're workign on my trip to firaxis HQ, but that should only be a day or two.

	06-07-2002 12:28									#20
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and back to me expanding my powers, yes, i have been doing that.

why? because it's in the best interests of the military, and my job is to assure everything that is the best for our military.

if we conquer a city, and our civ's units are at risk due to culture flip etc, the SMC should have the right to take charge and starve people out of the city and / or build walls or more units. The poll i put up passed (more voted yes than no, but the yes's were scattered).

another thing that i did was i got the SMC many of the powers enumerated to him/her by the constitution (or whatever we call it), and i quote:

quote: This officer is the principal military advisor to the President and the people, and prepares military plans and reviews overall military requirements for our nation. He/She also has the responsibility to assess threats to the security of the country and keep everyone up to date on these threats. The Military Advisor is granted the power to set up the army's strategy. He tells what troops to move where, and which battles to engage. The Military Advisor is granted the right to take an active part in negotiations of Peace Treaties, Mutual Protection Pacts, or a Right of Passage agreements. (Note: The Foreign Advisor calls the shots, but the Military Advisor must have his voice heard).

if i had not pushed for the third clause, our units could be in serious danger. imagine if the man controling the units had o say in a MPP, and all of a sudden we're fighting a 2 front war we werent ready for?

Yet another power i pushed for was reguardign sea transportation. It started off as a simple question, but i gave again gained power for my office. the SMC has the power to "comission" ships to any department that needs them for specific tasks, as well as just assigning them for "general" purposes.

for example, if the IE Minister needs to transport a settler, i may give him a boat for the duration of the mission, or i may give him a boat for all hsi future endavors.

in general, i am gaining power not for myself, as you make it out to be, but for my office and for the military in general. i believe the general apolytonian public believe the SMC post is best filled by someone willing to fight for what needs to be done.

	06-07-2002 13:52									#21
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UberKrux :
We might have different views on what a minister should do. I consider a minister should not defend the interests of his office, but the interests of the empire.

In my campaign, I promise not to push for marketplaces before we can afford them. Although marketplaces would do better for my office than more units, I know the empire needs military for the time being.

Keeping the superior interests of the empire in mind is the trademark of a minister. You have merits as SMC, but this is a flaw of yours, compared to Random Entity

	06-07-2002 16:58									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor UberKrux : We might have different views on what a minister should do. I consider a minister should not defend the interests of his office, but the interests of the empire.

Actually, at this point in the game, I see our most pressing need as a strong military capacity, to gain ground.
Later on, we willl need a more balanced approach, definitely. (Including marketplaces, most definitely -- I'm with Vel on this strategy point.)
But for the coming term, the interests of our SMC coincide closely with those of our little empire as a whole. I definitely want a strong advocate at the helm in the War Ministry for a vigorous ancient era war effort.

	06-07-2002 20:22									#23
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hi ,

intresting to see how some people talk about our current "officer" , .....lets not forget somethings , ...

the elections are to fast , so are the terms , by the time you learn how it goes , you are faced with elections , ...

three or two months should be smarter , ...

given the level and position of our great civilization , Uber has done great work , ....

and we dont even have seen war , ...

have a nice day

	06-07-2002 20:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by panag Uber has done great work , .... and we dont even have seen war , ...

Couldn't that be viewed as an oxymoron?

	06-07-2002 20:29									#25
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Uber has done a good job as far as I can see. I think he has taken the neccessary steps to gear up for the upcoming war. And we all know that in times of mobilization, the military is granted more power. I would support Uber if he tried to gain even more power. He needs to do whatever it takes to ensure victory over America. I dont have a problem with him doing this as long as he relinquishes some of the powers he has taken once the war is over.

	06-07-2002 20:32									#26
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quote: Originally posted by LordImpact Uber has done a good job as far as I can see. I think he has taken the neccessary steps to gear up for the upcoming war. And we all know that in times of mobilization, the military is granted more power. I would support Uber if he tried to gain even more power. He needs to do whatever it takes to ensure victory over America. I dont have a problem with him doing this as long as he relinquishes some of the powers he has taken once the war is over.

Personally, I feel that 5 Warriors makes our military quite lacking, and I hold UK directly responsible.

	06-07-2002 20:38									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Personally, I feel that 5 Warriors makes our military quite lacking, and I hold UK directly responsible.

hi ,

, okay , get more cities that can build them , ....

maybe with the elections you should be the minister of defense , and UberKruX president , ......

always intresting , ....

the terms are to short , ....

have a nice day

	06-07-2002 20:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by panag maybe with the elections you should be the minister of defense , and UberKruX president , ......

All in good time, Citizen Panag, all in good time...

	06-07-2002 20:54									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Trip All in good time, Citizen Panag, all in good time...

hi ,

but for now you are the president , that is with a capital "P" , .....

and you are doing it good , you should stay , ...

that is of course if you want to , ....

so who else is going for the office of the military , ....

always so many people who talk about "if i had the chance" , ....well , here it is , ....

and for the new citizen's , come on , you never know

have a nice day

	06-07-2002 21:00									#30
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quote: Originally posted by panag but for now you are the president , that is with a capital "P" , .....

You didn't capitalize it Panag.

quote: and you are doing it good , you should stay , ...

Vote for me then!

quote: that is of course if you want to , ....

Of course, one more term.

quote: so who else is going for the office of the military , ....

A fellow by the name of LordImpact.

quote: always so many people who talk about "if i had the chance" , ....well , here it is , ....

Indeed.

Chance to do what, by the way?

quote: and for the new citizen's , come on , you never know

What about them?

quote: have a nice day

Of course I will.