06-07-2002 08:39									#1
	Unit idea, possibly unbalanced Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I brought up this idea at Civgaming.net, got only one response, I would like your input as well.

The game has Subs, then Nuke Subs (SSN's). The SSN's can only carry one TacNuke (similar to a TLAM-N (which is a Tomahawk Nuclear tipped land attack missle, essentially a nuke cruise missle).

I was thinking of the concept of SSBNs in our world today, which carry 24 or more SLBMs (sea-launched ICBMs).

Would it, in your opinion, be unbalanced having an SSBN carrying 8 ICBMs or Tlam-Ns?

Before you start thinking about that, consider this:

The USA SSN-688 class (some variants) has room for something like up to 12 missle tubes, which means it can carry 12 tac nukes, or 12 regular tomahawks. In Civ3, it is limited to 1.

Opinions, please. Would the AI be able to make effective use of this, and would it be unbalanced, or should the current SSN in C3 be modified to carry 8 tac nukes or cruise missles?

	06-07-2002 13:44									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, it would be good for color, but I dont really see the point of launching ICBMs from submarines (in the game, i mean, if course), if i understand you correctly. I say this because ICBMs can hit any pooint on the map, so it really doesn't matter if they are luanched fro the city where they're built or from a sub.

I do think the nuclear subs in the game should be able to carry more tactical nukes, though, and I have edited the unit accordingly. I have yet to see if a 3 missile payload unbalances the game or not, and if the ai can use it correctly.

Kman

	06-07-2002 13:59									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think the point of having ICBMs in a sub- extremely difficult to locate! Unless the AI can see all of your units regardless of what you do...

With ICBM's in a city, it would be easy enough to nuke it and simply wipe it out in a hurry. With a nuke sub, say, near the N or S icecap, just launch away. Simple deterrence, just like today. Why else have them?

Did you use the Civ3Edit to change the parameters/payload of the SSN? Forgive my ignorance, but I simply haven't modified anything.. yet!

I wonder if the AI would use them too.... has anyone ever seen the AI use a nuke at all?

	06-07-2002 14:31									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I set tactical nukes to be aircraft, with the tactical missile flag. I set nuke subs to carry 6, with the Transport Only Aircraft and Transport Only Tactical Missiles flags.

	06-07-2002 23:27									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I see your point as a deterance, very interesting. Unfortunately, unlike actual advasaries in real life, I don't think the AI would realize this and attack regaurdless, even if it "knew" you had these missiles hidden at see. But, at least the missiles would still be hidden so if the AI destroys your cities one turn, you would have missiles still hidden and could safely nuke their ignorant asses away!

Kman

	06-07-2002 23:32									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Did you use the Civ3Edit to change the parameters/payload of the SSN? Forgive my ignorance, but I simply haven't modified anything.. yet!

Yeah, its pretty easy to learn the ropes. I'd download the hacked civ editor, I beleive you can find it in the files forum in the files library. You don't need it for stuff like what Zulu did above, but it is helpful when adding new units to the game (as well as resources and techs) though its not real simple.

Kman

	07-07-2002 00:18									#7
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kramerman I see your point as a deterance, very interesting. Unfortunately, unlike actual advasaries in real life, I don't think the AI would realize this and attack regaurdless, even if it "knew" you had these missiles hidden at see. But, at least the missiles would still be hidden so if the AI destroys your cities one turn, you would have missiles still hidden and could safely nuke their ignorant asses away! Kman

That is exactly what the idea is! It would be effective in Multiplayer when it finally comes out- you would never know if there is a sub right off your coast someplace loaded to the gills with nukes. Kinda puts a dampener on your plans for world conquest, doesn't it? I think I'm gonna modify that SSN to carry 4 tac nukes. Althrough, it really should be 12.

	07-07-2002 00:20									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Yeah, its pretty easy to learn the ropes. I'd download the hacked civ editor, I beleive you can find it in the files forum in the files library. You don't need it for stuff like what Zulu did above, but it is helpful when adding new units to the game (as well as resources and techs) though its not real simple. Kman

Already have Gramphos Multi-tool, it has a unit wizard that can add the entire shebang to the game easily... you could even modify it to be an SSBN and carry 12 ICBMs.