07-07-2002 00:11									#1
	Prune or Genocide? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

PLEASE READ ALL POSTS BEFORE VOTING. THANK YOU.

Without picking a target yet (there are various debates / polls on that), should our first target be "pruned" or completely wiped off the map?

they both have their Advantages, so i'll briefly go over them.

GENOCIDE

PROS
one benefit of Genocide is obvious, the Civ just flat out wont be there anymore. it would give us a direction to expand towards with less opposition.

we may get 2 or 3 cities by conquering. we may get more from pruning.

genocide means more attacks, more chances for a GL.

with a civ wiped out, there will be less competition for resoures near the area.

we would get many workers from genocide.

CONS
more attacks means more randomness. chances at losing units will be greater, so we must be as careful as possible.

Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 07-07-2002 at 00:19

	07-07-2002 00:14									#2
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oh, and you have 2 days.

	07-07-2002 00:27									#3
	Is it really genocide? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Uber:

I don't think that choice numbe 1 is really genocide, that implies not only taking all the cities of the other civ, but also razing all the cities we took. If we keep any, then its just a brutal conquest, but not genocide.

	07-07-2002 00:32									#4
	Re: Is it really genocide? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GePap Uber: I don't think that choice numbe 1 is really genocide, that implies not only taking all the cities of the other civ, but also razing all the cities we took. If we keep any, then its just a brutal conquest, but not genocide.

yes, technically you are right. genocide really isnt the term, it would be like "unconditional defeat"

	07-07-2002 00:44									#5
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I am in the DIA and I say we should destroy them.

	07-07-2002 00:49									#6
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same here

	07-07-2002 02:47									#7
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If America is our first target, then wipe them out.

	07-07-2002 04:30									#8
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Pruning, of course. Wiping them out so early is nonsense. Better let them build a few more cities and research a few more techs for us. We can wipe them out soon enough.

	07-07-2002 04:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Pruning, of course. Wiping them out so early is nonsense. Better let them build a few more cities and research a few more techs for us. We can wipe them out soon enough.

While the Banana God is merciful, I doubt our legions of Banana warriors will be successful for very long.

	07-07-2002 05:21									#10
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Any city near enough to our capital should be taken, if it wipes them out then its there own fault for building cities in territory thats rightfully ours.

	07-07-2002 08:22									#11
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Assuming we hit the states first, it should be genocide.

	07-07-2002 08:25									#12
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Pruning will indeed prove more profitable. Destruction can come later. If we trim them properly, we can keep them from resources, therefore our troops will remain effective.

	07-07-2002 08:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Pruning will indeed prove more profitable. Destruction can come later. If we trim them properly, we can keep them from resources, therefore our troops will remain effective.

And where are we to expand to?

	07-07-2002 08:50									#14
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quote: And where are we to expand to?

That is indeed the question...Peace through war! Progress through conquest!


So sayeth this citizen...

	07-07-2002 09:23									#15
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quote: And where are we to expand to?

Well, we sue for peace with Lincoln, gaining whatever possible, then find a second target. Oscillating wars. During the 20 years of 'peace' with America, the will likely not have many cities by the end, having pop rushed everything for troops during the war, they will be ripe for the picking, and have nothing left of value to us.

	07-07-2002 09:38									#16
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I feel that can only succeed with 100% support. I doubt that most people will desire constant war like that (well, not constant, but close to it), and unless we can effectively impliment oscillating wars with full support, then that plan will fail. The same rings true for the whole "strip them of everything they've got" principle... most won't like it if we constantly pop-rush units, etc. In addition to that, our reputation will be horrible after so many wars, so the citizens who care about that will be upset about such a proposal as well. I just feel with our current political situation, we need to go all or nothing, while support for a war still exists.

	07-07-2002 09:44									#17
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So many wars?

Two should give us enough room to then procede in many ways. As long as we are not breaking treaties, reputation will be fine. Eliminating hurts reptation as well, you know...

	07-07-2002 10:14									#18
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx So many wars? Two should give us enough room to then procede in many ways. As long as we are not breaking treaties, reputation will be fine. Eliminating hurts reptation as well, you know...

Even two 'pruning' wars is unlikely to foster much support from the pacifists. And if we can eliminate one civ early on, the reputation hit will be less important than it would be later, when embassies, military alliances, MPPs, etc. exist.

	07-07-2002 16:21									#19
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I am with Sir Ralph. To wipe them out so early our cities will be forced to build units for a long time : our culture and economy will suffer. IMHO, we should first build our army (3-4 spearman, 10-12 archers), then attack the Americans, take the two cities near of our lands (Washington, New York), then make peace. This will give us two or three (Boston?) more cities and some techs...

	07-07-2002 16:24									#20
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Highly dependent.

As for America/France or whatever, take all their good land. No more and no less. If we wipe them out, fine. If we leave some banana-infested hellhole jungle cities, fine. Just get that land!

	07-07-2002 17:15									#21
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Yes, oscillating wars. The base of all strategies. This is pretty much how this game works best, and how the history of real mankind looks like. Who played the nice guy in 2000BC, doesn't exist anymore. Period. We'll succeed to be the nice guys, when the land grab phase is over. And about reputation: Don't break treaties. Declare war (or let peace negotiatons fail) in time, before crossing their borders. Wait 20 turns before attack them again. They'll be furious, who cares?, but we won't suffer any diplomatic penalties.

Apart from this, who butchers the cow that gives cities and techs? Prune! Prune the next civ. Prune the first again. Grow this way.

	07-07-2002 22:39									#22
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I'm with most of you guys here, I say pruning. It also would help our economy at home.

	07-07-2002 22:47									#23
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we need America's fertile lands badly. Wipe them out then we can pimp France for all shes worth.

--Impact

	07-07-2002 22:52									#24
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hi ,

we should give those species a couple places , in return they shall give us money , .....

have a nice day

	07-07-2002 22:53									#25
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heh I'm sorry I didn't exactly understand the options even after reading, so I'll just explain that what I'd support currently is taking as much land from the Americans as is good land. If they settle in the jungle, we can let them clear it themselves then take'm later when it may be less of a bother. They may also be used as aggresion pact victims later to improve relations with a waring faction.

If they settled in a good spot, capture the base, lest ye waist valuable resources. If we can make better use of the land, raze it for the sake of the long term.

I don't think we need to worry about removing any civilizations completely at the moment-- we need to establish ourselves as at least slightly dominant.

	08-07-2002 00:08									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Expand or die is the only winning strategy. So keep advancing the borders, whatever it takes.

Specific cases depend on circumstances. Make peace only if we get something substantial out of it, either in tangible terms or geopolitically.

So, I vote for flexibility (choice #3).

	08-07-2002 00:16									#27
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Uber, another pro for genocide is that we'd be one step closer to a Conquest victory.

	08-07-2002 00:19									#28
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I'm always up for a bit of genocide .

	08-07-2002 00:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Darkworld Ark Uber, another pro for genocide is that we'd be one step closer to a Conquest victory.

hi ,

but in order to keep that army , we need money , so keep from each species one or two cities for trade , ...

have a nice day

	08-07-2002 00:43									#30
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I think the pro under genocide 'more leaders' is misleading. IN theory, if we turned a civ into a 'punching bag' to generate leaders rather than destroy them, then we would get more leaders. This should be a pro for pruning, not genocide.