08-07-2002 22:35									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There are roughly 6 and a half days more for voting, so the decision may be far from met.

But currently, I will not allow any form of sneak attack

It WAS my campaign promiss to never hurt our reputation. I will stick to this promiss unless this thread tells me to do otherwise. Currently, it looks like the people who voted me in have not changed their minds

	09-07-2002 04:14									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Can anyone tell me the difference between:

A/ crossing the border, saying 'OK we'll leave' and then declaring war and attacking on your next turn before they demand you leave and...

B/ crossing the border, saying 'OK we'll leave', move again deeper, and then saying 'it's war' when they demand the immediate (automatic) withdrawal?

If there is a big difference, A would work just as well for Trips thoughts as B.

	09-07-2002 11:16									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The difference is, that if you come with more than 1 unit, they immediately demand immediate (automatic) withdrawal. Our 8-stack has no chance to sneak in more than 1 tile.

	09-07-2002 11:42									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hmm. Hadn't noticed that before, but you are right.

	09-07-2002 20:51									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

we can win the war without a sneak attack

	11-07-2002 02:57									#36
	Remove this text

No, we will need to trade with our neighbors for a long time before we can war with them.

	11-07-2002 04:06									#37
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The size of Washingtons culture is going to cause the real problem, you only get once chance to leave the territory, the 2nd time you have to either automatically retreat or break the peace treaty. So sneak attacking doesn't seem possible unless you attack New York first.

	11-07-2002 04:08									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Oh wait Sir Ralph pointed that out already, hehe sorry

I really should read everyones post.

	11-07-2002 05:01									#39
	Got spare money?

To underline what Sir Ralph has said already:

If we declare war on our turn and move our troops in at the same turn, the result is same if we move our troops in our turn and in the next turn Americans declare war.

So in both case travel to Washington would take two turns in war with Americans ready to launch counterattack, or poprush that archer. With No on this pol, our reputation shouldn't suffer while the results are same.

	11-07-2002 07:05									#40
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No.

	11-07-2002 07:12									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

okaaay ....
"No"?

	11-07-2002 07:15									#42
	Suffering from ads?

Hes just stating his opinion. Does he have to say Why?

keep votin folks! plenty of time left to shift the vote. But I hope ya dont!

	11-07-2002 08:47									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ninot, Sir Ralph has already pointed out why it is a moot point. I have looked, tested and agree with him.

With a stack of units, you move in on T1, they say scram or war. That's it. There is no 1 turn 'ok we'll go' then move closer grace period.

Might as well say 'War on You' before the border is crossed and then move. It's the same net effect on movement, without the ROP violation.

	11-07-2002 10:41									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Then we'll do that!

	11-07-2002 11:08									#45
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sir Ralph has convinced me as well. I have had similar problems with my sneak attacks as well, and they bought me no advantage. In fact, on my latest personal game, at Warlord, I sneak attacked twice to knock of the Indians and Russians,(I needed the space for cities), and when I met everyone else they were PISSED! And this was Warlord.
If we pull a "pearl harbor" on the Americans than everyone else: the French, Germans, Greeks and Persians, will distrust us and use the nearest opportunity to try to knock the warmongering Apolytonians off. The Germans and Aztecs declared war on me for what I percieved as no good reason. I have finally figured it out. They distrusted me so much they figured I would pull another sneak attack, so they wanted to pre-empt me before I had recovered fully.
We DO NOT want the French fighting us while we are recovering with a war with the Americans. Our reputation is the only thing that will allow us to get ahead of the AI. I say, rather to only partially knock out the Americans and keep our reputation, then to kill the Americans and piss everyone off.

	11-07-2002 11:10									#46
	Tired of ads?

Oops, I forget a better in that last sentence, sorry

	11-07-2002 14:16									#47
	Remove this text

Reputation

	12-07-2002 08:40									#48
	Re: (Official poll of the Foreign Minister) Sneak attack vs. Reputation Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ninot There are some plans brewing for a possible sneak attack to begin Plan Eagle.This would be by moving in troups and ignoring Abe's requests for them to leave... and only declaring war once we are next to his cities. IF I do.. it will hurt almost as bad as a broken ROP. All neihgbors civs will remember this, and this will hurt trading till the end of the game. IF I don't (as has been argued) there is a good chance USA will be able to fend off our attack easier, and possibly defeat us.

It is a broken RoP; an unofficial one.

I am against it, even though I haven't read most of the replies. Either we are a nation worthy of our word, or not. We have an implied RoP while we are on their lands if we are not at war with them. even if we don't get the road bonus for it.

While you can get the other civs to eventually RoP and/or trade with you, it is at higher costs and they are more likely to attack you given half a provocation.

	12-07-2002 08:46									#49
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yes, we need the up that it will give us. We are plenty early in the game for this to be forgotten. Our reputation will be unstained soon enough and America will have been distant history.

	12-07-2002 09:32									#50
	Got spare money?

Well..we have two options

1: close this thread now so that the moot point dies
2: let the argument rage on, why? I dunno..

It has been discovered that we can't do this sneak attack.

If you wanna KEEP voting because you want to change the outlook on future decisions simmiliar to this one, feel free..

	12-07-2002 10:41									#51
	Increase Your PM Length

No, for all the reasons outlined above. The loss of reputation can lead to us not being able to do simple luxuries for techs trades among other things.

	26-07-2002 04:33									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Bump; let's not forget this one when we do go to war.