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Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:20
Thumbs down  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:05
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You're Fired - Because You're Israelis Suffering from ads?

quote:
UK professor fires two Israelis as part of anti-Israel boycott
By DOUGLAS DAVIS
London


The sacking of two Israelis by a professor at a leading British university in compliance with the anti-Israel academic boycott has sparked worldwide protests from academics and from the Israeli government.

Prof. Gideon Toury of Tel Aviv University and Dr. Miriam Schlesinger of Bar-Ilan University were fired from the academic boards of two language journals owned and run by Prof. Mona Baker of the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology (UMIST).

Schlesinger, a former chairman of the Israeli branch of Amnesty International, was a member of the editorial board of The Translator magazine, while Toury was a consulting editor of Translation Studies Abstracts.

Both had worked for Baker for three years before being asked to resign last month. When they refused, they were fired.

Egyptian-born Baker, director of the university's Center for Translation and Intercultural Studies, told the Sunday Telegraph: "I deplore the Israeli state." But she insisted she was not against Israelis as such: "It is Israeli institutions as part of the Israeli state which I absolutely deplore."

The pair, she said, would have been able to keep their jobs if they had left Israel for Britain and severed all ties with their homeland.

Her decision to sack them reflected "my interpretation of what a boycott of Israel means," she said. "Many people in Europe have signed a boycott against Israel. Israel has gone beyond just war crimes. It is horrific what is going on there. Many of us would like to talk about it as some kind of Holocaust which the world will eventually wake up to, much too late, of course, as they did with the last one."

D.J. Schneeweiss, spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in London, described the decision as "appalling." "This delegitimization of Israel is typical of the rejectionism that lies at the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict," he said yesterday. "It's an example of what the argument has always been about."

The sackings have raised no public opposition from British universities, but international academics have condemned Baker's action and called on British academics to defend academic freedom.

Among the campaigners is Prof. Stephen Greenblatt, an eminent Shakespeare expert at Harvard University, who arrived in Britain yesterday to receive an honorary degree from London University.

He said Baker's actions were "repellent," "dangerous," and "intellectually and morally bankrupt."

"Excluding scholars because of the passports that they carry or because of their skin color, religion, or political party corrupts the integrity of intellectual work," he declared.

In an open letter to Baker, Greenblatt, who is president of the Modern Language Association of America, described the "chilling shadow" cast by her actions.

"An attack on cultural cooperation, with a particular group singled out for collective punishment, violates the essential spirit of scholarly freedom and the pursuit of truth," he wrote.

"The pursuit of knowledge does not suddenly come to a halt at national borders. This does not mean that serious scholars must be indifferent to the world's murderous struggles, but it does mean that they are committed to an ongoing, frank conversation...[that] often includes passionate disagreement."

Francis Robinson, a professor of history at London University, agreed that "whatever anyone feels about Israel, this is absolutely appalling.

"Certainly there are strong feelings, not often spoken but nevertheless strongly felt, shared by the majority of British liberal intellectuals about the problems with Israel. Nonetheless, this sounds dreadful. It runs counter to the very principles of academic freedom."

Lord Greville Janner, who heads the Holocaust Educational Trust, said that the sackings were "disgraceful and dangerous. You should no more sack an Israeli academic for his nationality than you should a Palestinian in the same situation."

"In every university in the UK today there are problems between the two groups. They must try to insulate themselves from what is happening in the Middle East or else you are going to get the most terrible conflicts seeping into our university campuses."

But Prof. John Garside, vice-chancellor of UMIST, distanced himself from the debate, even though the journals carry the university logo.

"These are activities that she is involved with in her own time," he said. "What happens on those journals and the editorial policy on those journals are entirely a matter for those journals. It's an issue that we are dealing with internally and not something I want to make any public statement about at this stage."

Responding to the sacking, Toury wrote in the Wall Street Journal last week: "I'm very happy to be an Israeli. Indeed, I owe my life to the fact." He said he was writing a letter of response to his dismissal as a suicide bomber exploded some 150 meters from his home in Herzliya.

"The only reason I am alive in the first place," he wrote to Baker, "is that my parents, each of them separately, managed to leave Germany in the mid- and late-1930s, the only ones of their immediate families, and go to Palestine, which was the official name of the place in those days."

He added: "These dismissals may easily become the beginning of something much bigger that will rapidly get out of hand... What a terrifying prospect. We've been here before."



Discuss.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:09 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I disagree with the firings.

I also, however, disagree with this sentiment:

quote:
He added: "These dismissals may easily become the beginning of something much bigger that will rapidly get out of hand... What a terrifying prospect. We've been here before."

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:10
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You know, I've always suspected the English of quietly harboring an anti-semetic attitude. Interesting that the main protestors in this issue are Americans.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:14 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I'll let a British poster flame you on that one...

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:18 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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john
quote:
Egyptian-born Baker

....

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:26
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It was just an excuse. She wanted to fire them for ineptitide, but that wouldn't have gone down too well in England.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Not bad.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:48
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Ah, UMIST...

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:48
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" The sacking of two Israelis by a professor at a leading British university..."

Idiotic.

"... in compliance with the anti-Israel academic boycott..."

What boycott ?

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:54
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In the United States, the EEOC would be all over them.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 17:55 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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As well they should be.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 18:10
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Dosen't the UK have anything like that?

Tolls is offline Tolls
King
Hereford, UK
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 18:34
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http://education.guardian.co.uk/hig...,751265,00.html

Roland:
"What boycott ?"

Quoting the above article:
"Prof Baker is one of the signatories of a British-led petition of more than 700 academics from several countries launched by Steven Rose, an Open University professor. Signatories including Oxford professors Colin Blakemore and Richard Dawkins say they "can no longer in good conscience continue to cooperate with official Israeli institutions, including universities". "

I think this is ridiculous...little is to be gained by isolating some of the people who might actually do some good.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 18:41 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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Wrong to sack them, right to show disaproval of the way the Israeli government is dealing with it's internal problems.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 18:50
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700 academics ? There have to be about 1 million in north america and europe, how is this "the" boycott ? Hysterical propaganda.

Rogan Josh is offline Rogan Josh
Prince

Jan 1970
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 18:58
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I also agree that it was wrong to sack them.

One should note however, that they were not fired because of their nationality, but because they work for Israeli institutions. It is fairly acceptable in academic circles to restrict boards of journals or international studies to the members of certain institutaions. So, from a proceedural standpoint, removing Israeli institutions from the list of 'acceptable' institutions is OK.

To my mind though, institutions should only be boycotted on academic grounds - not political ones. In physics at least the Israeli Universities are top notch, so the sackings were completely wrong and abhorent.

I should watch what I am typing here because I am currently sharing my office with a visitor from Tel-Aviv University....

Faeelin is offline Faeelin
Chieftain
Tau Ceti
Oct 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 19:01
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This professor should be fired. Now, please.

Politics do not belong in the academic field. Especially such a volatile issue.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 19:05 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Of course it´s wrong to fire them due to political differences.
There´s not much to discuss.

Seeker is offline Seeker
Emperor
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 19:13 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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Totally wrong.

The sphere of academic inquiry should at least attempt to keep up the thin veneer of a pretence of being apolitical.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 19:38
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So why doesn't someone call for a boycott of the two offending journals? How are they financed? If they're publicly financed then the government ought to withdraw funding. If they're financed by sales then a boycott should bring them down and we'll see Prof. Baker in bankruptcy court.

In the US a professor making a decision so obviously motivate by racial hatred, even thought the enterprise was not univrsity related, would face expulsion from the university.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 19:49 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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It's nothing to do with racial hatred. Even though I don't agree with the sackings, it's about disaproval with the way the Israeli government is acting in Palestine.

The anti-semetic thing is just so wrong.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 19:52 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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The equivalent would be not employing academics who work for South African institutions during apartheid.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 20:00
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"In the US a professor making a decision so obviously motivate by racial hatred, even thought the enterprise was not univrsity related, would face expulsion from the university."

You mean, like from Bob Jones University ?

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 20:15
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quote:
they were not fired because of their nationality,



Read:
quote:
The pair, she said, would have been able to keep their jobs if they had left Israel for Britain and severed all ties with their homeland.


READ: Stop being Israeli nationals.

Are you dumb or just anti-semitic?

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 20:25 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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They still didn't say stop being jewish, it's not an anti jewish thing.

JohnIII is offline JohnIII
Warlord

Apr 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeH
They still didn't say stop being jewish, it's not an anti jewish thing.

No, it's anti-semitic, today's most popular smear.

Rogan Josh is offline Rogan Josh
Prince

Jan 1970
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
quote:
they were not fired because of their nationality,



Read:
quote:
The pair, she said, would have been able to keep their jobs if they had left Israel for Britain and severed all ties with their homeland.


READ: Stop being Israeli nationals.

Are you dumb or just anti-semitic?


I didn't mean 'nationality' in that sense. I meant, they were not fired because their homeland was Israel. Or in other words, they were not discriminated against on a personal level for the makeup of their genes. There was no objection to them being Jewish or Israeli by birth - only being associated with the Israeli state.

Look at the US in the cold war. Would it have been usual practice to have Russians on the boards of American journal? Only if they left the USSR and cut off all ties with their homeland I think. (This actually led to a lot of scientific discoveries being made twice.)

There is really nothing different here. (I still disapprove because it inhibits the pursuit of learning.)

So tell me Mr Sirotnikov (what a good Iraeli name that is...), are you just dumb or anti-christian (or anti-anglo-saxon if you want to think of it as a racist thing)?

Tolls is offline Tolls
King
Hereford, UK
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 21:15
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Strangelove:
"If they're financed by sales then a boycott should bring them down and we'll see Prof. Baker in bankruptcy court. "

I'm not sure how they're funded, but they're both sub-1000 circulation.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 21:39
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quote:
So tell me Mr Sirotnikov (what a good Iraeli name that is...), are you just dumb or anti-christian (or anti-anglo-saxon if you want to think of it as a racist thing)?


Adalbertus is offline Adalbertus
Prince
Cologne, Germany
Feb 2001
time: 06:20
  Old Post 08-07-2002 22:23 Visit Adalbertus's homepage!
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Firing people is pure nonsense. If you achieve something by this, it is to make them extremists. Which is the least this region of the world needs. Sure, getting rid of Sharon is a necessary condition for a lasting peace, but by no means sufficient. And Israel is a democratic country, so Israelis have the right and the duty to learn this themselves. Someone from a foreign country can't help in this process by not talking to them.

 
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