08-07-2002 22:24									#1
	Who should be the leader of the Arabs if they're in PTW? Put an end to popups!

If the Arabs were to be one of the civs featured in PTW? Who would you like to see as their leader out of the following choices.

I personally would like to see Saladin, as he represents a "total package" of traits that make him desirable as a Civ III leader. He obviously has great historical value, as he fought Richard III in the legendary third crusade, also he is probably the most famous Arab leader in the minds of westerners (with the exception of perhaps Muhammed himself), so he has that going for him. But he also seems to be one of those types of leaders who has a certain aura of "cool" surrounding him. I personally would find Saladin to be the absolutely perfect choice.

Now we can only hope that Firaxis adds the Arabs to the game.

	08-07-2002 23:32									#2
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Why no Saddam Hussein? He might turn out to be the Arabs greatest leader.

	08-07-2002 23:55									#3
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I know he wasn't born an Arab, but how about Lawerence of Arabia

	09-07-2002 01:59									#4
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Saladin, no question.

His Arabic name, BTW, can be transliterated as Salah al Din (stress on the ah, and the l in al is silent).

	09-07-2002 04:25									#5
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Personally, I can not go past Muhammed. The way he brutely united the independent Arab tribes under his rule, and in the name of his religion make him a for runner in my mind. That is, no Muhammed, no Arabia.

	09-07-2002 06:12									#6
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A depiction of Muhammed would be a major faux pas though.

	09-07-2002 06:13									#7
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quote: A depiction of Muhammed would be a major faux pas though.

he could wear a burkha

	09-07-2002 06:20									#8
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and my vote goes to good old Ibn Yussuf Salah al-Din.

	09-07-2002 07:00									#9
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Who voted for Abu Bakr I wonder?

	09-07-2002 20:22									#10
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither A depiction of Muhammed would be a major faux pas though.

This is entirely correct- graven images of the Prophet would hardly sell games.
Judging from how Fixaris picks leaders, usually going for those easily recognizable and famous Saladin will pobably be it anyway.

	09-07-2002 22:03									#11
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Saladin sounds good to me too.
Also, Lawrence of Arabia was an Englishman, Thomas Edward Lawrence. So, that makes no sense (sorry Hoznog) however, how about his Arab partner Prince Feisal. Feisal (if I'm not mixing him up with another Arab prince or one of his descendants) was a rather important ruler in the entire middle east after the First World War, ruling Jordan and later Iraq; though the region was more or less under British and French control and his power was not that great. You can look at the fact that he and his followers (with the help of the British, who turned out to be not too helpful in the end) liberated pretty much the whole of Arabia from the Ottomans.
So scratch Saladin, I think I'll say Feisal just to vote for something different, besides, if he's the leader maybe we'll get an Alec Guinness leader head (if you have no idea what I'm talking about : http://us.imdb.com/Title?0056172 )

	10-07-2002 00:01									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GePap This is entirely correct- graven images of the Prophet would hardly sell games. Judging from how Fixaris picks leaders, usually going for those easily recognizable and famous Saladin will pobably be it anyway.

As if a whole bunch of Muslims are buying this game anyways.

	10-07-2002 01:50									#13
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Aladdin!

Their special unit could be genies that grant 3 wishes over the course of the game. Like maybe give them a free tech or a free government switch (assuming they aren't religious, which they probably will be). Why the phuck not?

	10-07-2002 05:28									#14
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Perhaps because it's stupid?

	10-07-2002 05:36									#15
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I don't think Arabs are in PTW. But if they were, I think the leader would be Saladin.
What about great leaders? I'm sure Firaxis wouldn't use names like Saddam Hussein or bin Laden. These are saved for the "lunatics" civilization.

	10-07-2002 06:46									#16
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Well, Dimorier Maximus, it never hurts to be considerate about someone else's religion. And anyway, even in the US alone there is a large Muslim population, not to mention the fact that there are well over a billion followers worldwide, and growing.

	10-07-2002 16:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus As if a whole bunch of Muslims are buying this game anyways.

!!! arabs is not equal muslims !!!

turks are muslim, but not arab
iranian are muslim, but not arab
pakistanis are muslim, but not arab
usbeks and tadjiks are muslim, but not arab
same for some other former soviet countries, a lot of africans, indonesia, philipines, many larger and smaller nations worldwide, etc., etc., etc.

	10-07-2002 20:31									#18
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I would say my original suggestion was silly, but not stupid. Perhaps it could be used for a 'Disney' scenario.

I'm gonna need a little Arab 101 lesson from sabrewolf. I agree that not all muslims are arabs, but aren't a good number of arabs muslim? Hook me up with the info.

And as for saddam hussein, etc. as 'great leaders' - I don't think Firaxis will use any names from the past 50 years. Even so, not every civilization's leader is known for being an upstanding member of society, much less a pro-life proponent (and I'm not talking abortion here). Take, for example, Montezuma of the Aztecs - he probably engaged in human sacrifice (of his OWN people) on a daily basis. Nevertheless he's the face we look at in Civ 3.

	10-07-2002 20:59									#19
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I donīt think that Saladin should be the great leader of the Arabs, mainly because I believe, this might be caused by some misconception on my part, that he wasnīt an Arab. My knowledge of Arabic history is very poor so again I stress the point that this might be wrong.

The leader of the Arabs should be the rashid fellow, Iīm guessing he is the one that united the Arab tribes and went on the unify the whole of the Arab peninsula. At least it was some Rashid family hailing from Riyadh.

	11-07-2002 04:42									#20
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Papa Chubby I donīt think that Saladin should be the great leader of the Arabs, mainly because I believe, this might be caused by some misconception on my part, that he wasnīt an Arab. My knowledge of Arabic history is very poor so again I stress the point that this might be wrong.

Sure Saladin wasn't truly Arabic, but what the hell does that have to do with what he did for the Arabic people?! Without him, the Arabs might still have been ruled by the filthy barbarian crusaders.

Its better to base the choice of leader on what they did for the people they led. NOT whether or not they were one of them.

I think Saladin would be a great choice.

	11-07-2002 07:12									#21
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Good point Sabrewolf. Also, Syrians, Lebanese and Palestinians are Arabs, but there are very sizable Christian populations there.

Also, I think that the fact that Saladin wasn't really an Arab is rather obscure anyway, and we've all seen that Firaxis doesn't bother themselves too much with the obscure, instead going for fun and recognisability.

But I still want to see Feisal there somewhere, perhaps as a great leader.

	11-07-2002 07:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew_Jay Well, Dimorier Maximus, it never hurts to be considerate about someone else's religion. And anyway, even in the US alone there is a large Muslim population, not to mention the fact that there are well over a billion followers worldwide, and growing.

Unless they're Christian, right? Then you bash the heck out of them.

I think the leader should be Saladin though, as it was in Civ2. Except you didn't know that the Arabs were in Civ2 unless you looked at the rules.txt file.

	11-07-2002 07:39									#23
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf !!! arabs is not equal muslims !!! turks are muslim, but not arab iranian are muslim, but not arab pakistanis are muslim, but not arab usbeks and tadjiks are muslim, but not arab same for some other former soviet countries, a lot of africans, indonesia, philipines, many larger and smaller nations worldwide, etc., etc., etc.

Thanks, Mr. Obvious, but I didn't say that he should be the leader...

	11-07-2002 08:35									#24
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its going to have to be Saladin.. as any pictures of Muhammed would be considered a bad thing..

	11-07-2002 08:42									#25
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as for the debate of Saladin not being Arab, i dont think thats a big deal really.. Washington wasnt an american either by blood

	11-07-2002 22:09									#26
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Im suprised no one has suggested Pres. Nasser. He was a hero in much of the Arab world after the 56 war.

	14-07-2002 02:06									#27
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My vote goes to Muhamett. The only leader whose influence is so high nowadays.

However, how about Nasser?

	14-07-2002 03:35									#28
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Nasser fared poorly during the 6 Days War.

Saladin is the best choice

	14-07-2002 05:09									#29
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Yassir Arafat.

	14-07-2002 17:43									#30
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It has to be Saladin, though Kurdish

Civ2 came with optional city lists and I had soon replaced Iroquois with Incas and Celts with Arabs. The Arab leaders they suggested IIRC were indeed Saladin -and Fatima for the ladies.