09-07-2002 03:27									#1
	The Most Playable Civ Has To Be... Full PM-box? Change here!

...the Indians.
Yep, that's right. Indians.
Why? I almost liked Japan, then thought China skipping Chivalry might be cool, or maybe even Persia or Romans; but it boils down to no resources required for War Elephants.
I've had it up to here (ok you can't see, but my hand is held up to my eyes) of taking the Japanese, for instance, and then having no iron.
Have hills out the keester. Tough. Too bad. Out of luck.
Illustrates, again, the real-world, as in Mideast oil.

So are we agreed then? Indians ?

	09-07-2002 03:52									#2
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AZTEC, as in Montezuma.

OTOH, there is so much dependent on your environmental situation (as in Jungle, or LUXURIES), that I rarely play favorites and just set to random.

	09-07-2002 04:14									#3
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Egypt... forget the UU. Rel+Ind provides flexibility for just about any situation, which Jaybe points out.

	09-07-2002 04:49									#4
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I think the most playable is Egypt, for the reasons Theseus said.

Industrious allows you more freedom to change terrain and Religious lets you build cheap temples and change government more often to suit your situation.

	09-07-2002 04:50									#5
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While it's not my favorite... I'd have to agree with these guys, Egypt.

	09-07-2002 04:52									#6
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Uh, AHEM! That's Rel+Mil, Theseus.
Actually, if it's got religious, I don't care who it is. Otherwise I get a little anxious about not having the flexibility to switch govs.

	09-07-2002 05:43									#7
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Rome. Legions. Kill the nearest b*stard who has iron. Problem solved.

	09-07-2002 06:15									#8
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Persia is obviously the Best.

Scientific and Industrious. Everybody needs the industrious trait to get ahead of the competitions fast, and Scientific gives you things like Universitites and Libraries at reduced prices. Plus free tech at each new era. With those attributes, I never fall behind the tech race! Perfect for a space victory.

	09-07-2002 06:47									#9
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Jaybe, whaddya mean? Egypt is Rel+Ind.

Are you Arrian in disguise, making a pitch for Japan?

Persia is tempting, I agree. Indomitable UU, and Sci+Ind is nearly as good. I haven't gotten the hang of happiness without Temples yet (esp. as a warmonger), so, as much as I love cheap Libraries and Universities, I've still gotta stick with Egypt for the overall flexibility.

	09-07-2002 07:04									#10
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Well, I am a Roman supporter, but my playing style would be best suited if I play as the babs.


As for the Indians, their UU is only good if you don't have any iron, which is rare for me at that stage of the game. If you start a game and find an iron right beside your capital, then you got cheated, except for having a cool looking unit. I should sit down with my edited senario and give that UU an extra something point to give it some value other then not needing Iron.

	09-07-2002 07:43									#11
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My heavily biased opinion? Germans!

Persia is probably as good, or even better, but my bias remains.

Last edited by Verto on 09-07-2002 at 07:52

	09-07-2002 07:57									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Verto My heavily biased opinion? Germans!

What I like to do, is kiss up to bismark then when he gets his panzers in production, I get him into a war with me against someone else.

I get the best of both world, a great Early UU and a great Late UU.

	09-07-2002 08:20									#13
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Nice.

	09-07-2002 08:24									#14
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Remind me to never play with you in PtW ya moocher!

	09-07-2002 10:44									#15
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I never played the Egyptians in Civ 3. But I will give it a try my favorite Civ is of course my Greek and the Chinese.

	09-07-2002 18:19									#16
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Germans? German special unit too far out there, IMO.
Aztec. And their Jaguar Warrior? Well, maybe.
It does upgrade; but counting on a Golden Age would seem to be optimistic.
Rome and Persia have their good points.

	09-07-2002 18:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Rome. Legions. Kill the nearest b*stard who has iron. Problem solved.

Don't you need iron to build the legion?

	09-07-2002 19:09									#18
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I have to give credit to Egypt, Rel/Ind is indeed powerful. But I have this weird penchant for the Babylonians' Rel/Sci combination. I guess it's the low build cost for temples/libraries/other improvements that help with culture.

	09-07-2002 22:04									#19
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If you are able to secure Iron, Rome is unstoppable. There is no more balanced early unit in the game than the legion. Cheap, effective on offense, outstanding on defense, as soon as I get Iron Working, kiss your ass goodbye.

Some may like the Immortal, but I have the math to back me up - 100 Legions vs. 100 Immortals will favor the Legions every time.

Besides, why NOT take the second most dominant power to ever occupy the earth? Only thing I miss - the great Roman anthem from Civ1. Caesar III also has outstanding music to listen to when playing (it kicks the HIGH HOLY HELL out of the Civ3 music).

Go to www.caesar3.com and download the .mp3s. The overture is incredible.

Venger

	09-07-2002 22:56									#20
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Can't believe no one likes the Iriquois. Apart from being hard to spell, what's not to like? Religious. And they have a 3-attack horseman available very early in the game. Great for taking over your continent.

When using the Borg building strategy, which takes forever before you focus on building units, I like China. The rider just murders neighboring civs, although it comes later and demands more resources.

	10-07-2002 00:38									#21
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Persians.

BTW, shouldn't there be a poll here?

	10-07-2002 01:50									#22
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Egypt off course

	10-07-2002 03:09									#23
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You gotta love the Babylonians. Rel is a must and sci is essential for keeping ahead enough in tech to sell them.

Culture comes cheaply and the bowman means you don't have to send spearmen out with your archers and defending captured cities is easy.

Early GA and slow workers are bad points but overall IMO they're the best all rounders.

	10-07-2002 03:27									#24
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quote: Originally posted by OPD You gotta love the Babylonians. (Snip) Early GA and slow workers are bad points but overall IMO they're the best all rounders.

The workers I'll give you. The Early GA...yeah, but. You uses the variant of Catt's WC with the Bowmen, and go carefully when building your GWs--you can prolong the GA for quite a while if you don't jump straight at the Oracle/Great Library combo--and you're...well, golden.

	10-07-2002 07:03									#25
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quote: Originally posted by khyron The workers I'll give you. The Early GA...yeah, but. You uses the variant of Catt's WC with the Bowmen, and go carefully when building your GWs--you can prolong the GA for quite a while if you don't jump straight at the Oracle/Great Library combo--and you're...well, golden.

I wish there was a way to disable "Passive" GAs, they are quite annoying.

	10-07-2002 07:05									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Remind me to never play with you in PtW ya moocher!

Don't worry, I don't plan playing MP.

	10-07-2002 07:13									#27
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Thrawn--Oh, I dunno, it has its place. (I presume by passive you mean a GA by UU victory.) If you're trying really hard to expand fast either by settlers or by plucking the fruits of your neighbors' labors and you just don't feel like dealing with the wonders for some reason, or the AI beats you out of that last wonder you need to GA by two or three turns--no, I'm not bitter about this kind of thing at all --it's always nice to have somthing to fall back on.

	10-07-2002 16:27									#28
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quote: Originally posted by khyron The Early GA...yeah, but. You uses the variant of Catt's WC with the Bowmen, and go carefully when building your GWs--you can prolong the GA for quite a while if you don't jump straight at the Oracle/Great Library combo--and you're...well, golden.

Yeah but as I said in my post I rate the bowman highly and like to use it alot. I've noticed that alot of people dislike the bowman and see it as a weak UU. But I suppose it's just the way that I play that makes it useful. If you build a few cities and start pumping out hordes of bowmen you can reliably take the nearest civs to you. Theres not much a civ can do against a stack of bowmen intill they get Iron by which time you can have alot of land and sit back and build the cheap libraries and temples.

	10-07-2002 18:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by OPD If you build a few cities and start pumping out hordes of bowmen you can reliably take the nearest civs to you.

What? A builder like me, who likes pushing the borders early with his cheapie temples, go stompin' with a horde of bowmen like a common bandit?

I take your point, and there's validity there in the numbers you describe. I think it's something in my psyche, swords rather than bows. I tried training with the bow when I was young, got fustrated, and graduated to a katana a few years ago. Mmmmm....samurai..... Anyway, my other reason for holding off on the bowmen is the whole GA thing. The only time where my streak of procrastination is useful.

	10-07-2002 18:48									#30
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What about Civ's that allow an extra shields in city square? One of my weaknesses is lost production on Wonders others get to first.