10-07-2002 09:15									#1
	A couple things I would like fixed in Play the World... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

First of all, what good is a coastal fortress if an Ironclad can come right up, bombard your city, and destroy your coastal fortress without taking a hit? I think that needs some fixing there.

I'd also like to see more effective catapults and cannons and other artillery...they are just about useless as is.

	10-07-2002 10:31									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

A catapult, by itself, won't kill anything. However, I've found my archers and swordsmen win more when the battle commences with a catapult bombardment.
Also, large stacks or artillery are quite devastating, as is.

	10-07-2002 12:00									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yes playshogi, they are. I can't understand why people say they are useless.

Have the nay-sayers ever fired 24 of them at a city with 4 units in garrison? In most cases the 4 units will be reduced to 1 or 2 hp each, the city will be short many pop points, and some of the improvements will have been destroyed.

I think actually, that the perception that arty is useless is based more on the fact that it is never used on the player effectively by the AI. That will change with MP and modern scenarios.

	10-07-2002 12:52									#4
	Put an end to popups!

What about the coastal fortresses? Any comments on that? What is the use in building them if there is a loophole by which your ship has a 100% chance of avoiding getting hit by them because it won't even fire at the ship. Even the dadgum AI figured this loophole out.

And about the catapults...why the heck would you ever build 24 of them? Man...those resources could be spent building 24 archers OR 16 swordsmen, which would rape a city with 4 defenders as is...plus they can't be captured like catapults.

Now, I will admit that Artillery and Radar Artillery are worthwhile, but catapults and cannons suck, IMO.

	10-07-2002 20:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I believe the Coastal Fortress will have the "auto bombard" option on the expansion. Basically, Coastal Fortresses will automatically bombard any enemy ships confronting the city. Of course, I could be wrong, but that is my impression concerning the auto bombard option.

	10-07-2002 21:42									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich I believe the Coastal Fortress will have the "auto bombard" option on the expansion. Basically, Coastal Fortresses will automatically bombard any enemy ships confronting the city. Of course, I could be wrong, but that is my impression concerning the auto bombard option.

I'd like to seea falg for auto-bombard for land artillery against ocean units as well. The perceived uselessness of the coastal fortress could be soothed by modding in a series of immobile artillery as Gun Batteries. It would work now, but would only auto-bombard against land units.

	11-07-2002 01:18									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I thought coastal fortresses already auto-bombarded sea units, or are supposed to according to the manual and civopedia. I of course have never seen this happen, they don't seem to do anything to me...

	11-07-2002 07:17									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Palleon I thought coastal fortresses already auto-bombarded sea units, or are supposed to according to the manual and civopedia. I of course have never seen this happen, they don't seem to do anything to me...

Exactly. Maybe they messed them up in one of the later patches. I do remember that they used to fire at ships, but ever since I got the v1.21 patch, I've never seen them fire at a ship.

	11-07-2002 15:37									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I built heaps of coastal fortesses in my last game (1.21f) and enemy ships just hapilly sailed by.
It would be nice if coastal fortresses were really devastating (i.e. chance to kill) otherwise they are a severe waste of money.

	11-07-2002 19:39									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I thought coastal fortresses added a defensive bonus like walls.

	12-07-2002 01:17									#11
	Tired of ads?

I beleive that coastal fortresses added a defence against ships in Civ 2, but now, in Civ 3, I beleive they are supposed to bombard incoming ships, but this loophole that Dimorier describes NEEDS to be fixed.

	12-07-2002 02:41									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was playing with the editor, and theres at least a spot for coastal fortresses to add a naval bombard, so maybe that is working, I'm not sure though, whenever I get bombed with a CF, or fire at a city with one, it always gets blown up the first turn. And of course, never fires. Maybe you need a naval unit in the city with the CF in order to fire? Also, how come naval units don't have ZOC?

	12-07-2002 04:05									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I was under the impression an enemy ship had to move THROUGH two tiles next to the fortress for it to be activated.

It is pretty much useless regardless of the above - another problem withn Civ 3.

	12-07-2002 04:32									#14
	Put an end to popups!

I had a war going on with germany once. There were carriers right next to my costal fortress. The carrier had so many nuclear weapons it was unbeliavable. I Bet if the cf would have shot down the carriers i would have won the war.

	12-07-2002 05:33									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

One thing I've noticed about bombard weapons is the AI's reluctance to attack units in the field that are stacked with them. If I have multiple groups, the AI will always attack the one without bombards - even if it's on better defensive terrain than all the others.

I haven't tested this enough to say whether other factors influence the decision (will the AI attack a couple of MIs while ignoring a lone spearman/catapult? couldn't tell ya!), but it's another insight into AI behavior.