13-07-2002 14:27									#31
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I think the problem is - you only have 1 Settler!! At Deity you always start with two so you do not need to build a Settler from the capital. as I have remarked above my normal Capital build list is Warrior, warrior (temple if available) wonder and following this formula my Gardens are normally in place before any AI even starts a WoW.
Listen carefully to the worker advice from STYOM it is right on the nose - food to size 2 then switch to a shield economy - everywhere except the Cap and even there to a more carefully controlled extent...

SG[1]

	13-07-2002 20:27									#32
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Thank you gentlemen. STYOM, I had not sneak-attacked anyone. I only go on the warpath when I am forced to (another civ attacks me first) or I am militarily powerful enough to win a war. I will try the food to 2 and then shield practice. After posting my last I went to the GL and read Dave's teaching on the subject so your advice was timely.

I must say that everyone here has been very helpful...thanks
I should also say that the Gits are anything but, well, gits. Perhaps a name change to the Scouse Teddy Bears may be in order

	13-07-2002 22:32									#33
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quote: Originally posted by El Civ I should also say that the Gits are anything but, well, gits. Perhaps a name change to the Scouse Teddy Bears may be in order

*snort*

	13-07-2002 23:51									#34
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I don't remember if you said you were playing 2.4.2 or MGE, El Civ. I guess the idea is that not only should you avoid sneak attacking the AI, but you should also try to be their friend, via tech gifting/trading especially. It's hard to know where to draw the line, sometimes, but generally in the very early game you do what you have to, to keep the peace.

If you are the type that likes a lot of cities, you can intimidate the AI into not attacking you fairly easily. The AI knows how many units you have, and if you have a lot, they'll respect you more.

The other way to avoid these problems is to play on a large map, archipeligo. Generally speaking, it's less easy for the AI to approach you in the early game with those settings. You want to get the hang of managing your early growth before you have to start thinking about how to contain an AI Civ that's very close to you.

And, I agree with SG [1] - I usually build at least 1 Settlers in my capital before I start the wonder, but that extra Settler in deity for City #2 seems indispensible when you get used to it.

STYOM

	14-07-2002 00:08									#35
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Growing to size two quickly is sound advice but you can use slow growing cities (one food surplus) to pump out units and you will be surprised how many units you can create out of these cities allowing immediate building of a settler once you found a city.

any captured cities with barracks, i keep.....and i use these cities to pump out vet units of whatever i deem necessary. The one or two gold upkeep of such cities is insignificant next to the benefits these cities can give.

On deity level DONT build a set out of your capital, it can really hurt your chances in the race to that third early wonder haha

on large maps its ok to use your NON nomads to build roads as i have yet to see any limit on how many of these units you can have at one time...whereas small maps can be limited to one per continent Of course if the nomad is MILES away i just look for a good city location and start pumping

On virtually any map other than small , continents, map making is by far your best friend. Early boats prevent the need for Marco Polos..which IMO is a waste of shields.

Others will tell you they like it, and i used to think so, but reality dictates you are only going to have embassies with one/two civs, so why waste the shields on it. Plus it expires if you get to communism and then you have to either build UN or establish those two embassies anyways.....

City build should go like this ....warrior, warrior, warrior, wonder, temple, warrior, caravans........

if you find martial law problems from your capital, send a unit from a different city and you can negate the extra warriors.....

	14-07-2002 00:18									#36
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"Scouse Teddy Bear" is not the normal epithet that greets the arrival of my Carthaginian 'Clads & Crooks ... I wonder why no-one has ever remarked on this before

SG[1]

	14-07-2002 00:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever On virtually any map other than small , continents, map making is by far your best friend. Early boats prevent the need for Marco Polos..which IMO is a waste of shields. Others will tell you they like it, and i used to think so, but reality dictates you are only going to have embassies with one/two civs, so why waste the shields on it. Plus it expires if you get to communism and then you have to either build UN or establish those two embassies anyways.....

I strongly disagree /

Marco Polo + good use of Marco Polo IS A WINNER.

All the big comparison games we had last year (with arii, smash, the Gits and other strong players) demonstrated that those who built MP had the best final results.
If you have a look at your embassies and say 'oh, he has 7 cities and is 3 techs behind me' I grant you that you can skip building Marco.
But you should never forget that, with a bit of training, Marco may give you FULL KNOWLEDGE of the map many centuries before Space Flight and grant you magnificient possibilities of long distance foreign trade.

	14-07-2002 00:51									#38
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La Fayette, i don't disagree with the possibilities of foreign trade

and i agree that you can contact other civs of which you may not have the luxury of doing so...but personally with good early exploration, Marcos quite frankly is just not needed. You can always swap maps when you meet a foreign nation anyways.....if you get lucky you might even see another civ in their map.

Then again, i don't play to set records...i just play for fun

	14-07-2002 01:08									#39
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Okay all, here is my most recent endeavor. It is (IIRC) on King, large map, archipeligo, restless tribes (cough, neophyte, cough). Oh, version 2.42 also.

FYI, the roads were to improve trade and allow for faster caravan movement to Seville and Madrid (my cities that build wonders). I just agreed to peace with the English after they declared war on me upon our first meeting (was it my breath?). Nearly all the AI civs are digging my Spanish mojo, but the Sioux dislike me (the Bohemians! :angry.

I was about to begin building virtually nothing but some settlers, some military units and caravans (and wonders in Seville as they become available). The sleeping caravans await the next wonder and the one beside Cordoba awaits a caravan to take it to far off lands. Lastly, Valladolid and Barcelona were founded during my war with the English (which consisted of them having a single warrior attack Salamanca), hence the immediate phalanx in each (still don't know if English cities lay North of them). Please critique--thanks.

	14-07-2002 01:09									#40
	Um, forgot the game Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It didn't attach. I must need velcro.

Attachment: spain.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	14-07-2002 04:18									#41
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Just a note - High priestess in Space just launched over in Civ2|General

++

The SGs enjoying their second bouteille

	14-07-2002 06:19									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits "Scouse Teddy Bear" is not the normal epithet that greets the arrival of my Carthaginian 'Clads & Crooks ... I wonder why no-one has ever remarked on this before SG[1]

Don't get me wrong here SG[1], I have read of your exploits as the "rabid rodent" upon the Civ field of battle. In here, however, neither you nor SG(2) have been contemptable whatsoever. I've no doubt that your Carth "Clads & Crooks" bring a trembling to all who survey them