10-07-2002 21:53									#1
	Suggestions wanted-must not lose space race Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Greetings.


Just a question on what would you do in the following situation.

In my current game as the Germans (regent, med. continents, standard map) I am first in land area, mfg. goods, productivity, and GNP. I am second in the scores list and only 150 points behind the leader (Russia)

It is 1981, the Russians have 5 spaceship parts completed with another 3 in production. I have 3 parts completed with 4 in production. I am at war with the Russians. Their continent is 3 sea tiles away from mine. Moscow, the capital, is 8 tiles inland from the nearest coast but about 20 tiles away from my coast. I've nuked Moscow and have two more nukes in production near completion. My spy tells me they have no nukes but their military is slightly larger than mine.

How can I prevent the Russian from completing their spaceship? Their capital is out of reach, although I am assembling a landing force to try to run inland to their capital. Should I try this or just continue my nuking campaign? Note: no other nations declared war on my after my initial nuclear strike and if they did I could easily defend against them and fight Russia. There are only 5 civs left including mine.

This game could possibly be my first win on regent thanks to Sir Ralph's archer rush strategy. I don't want to lose this one to the space race and can easily win eventually by land area alone. Any thoughts?

	10-07-2002 22:44									#2
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Since you've already uncorked the nuclear genie, use your future nukes to destroy all access to Aluminum -- even if it means launching a nuke at the Russians' trading partners' supply of Aluminum (because Moscow still has a functioning airport). Kepp launcing on Aluminum resources to ensure a bunch of workers don't reconnect the trade route.

Sounds to me to be easier than trying to get your invasion force well into the Rodina in order to raze Moscow. And also sounds like you're not all that far from a launch in any event.

Catt

Last edited by Catt on 11-07-2002 at 00:22

	11-07-2002 00:14									#3
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This is how I acquired my first Regent win. Me and Alex were the only civs left, but due to a bit of extra warmongering by me in later game, Alex was beating me to the space race. His starting island was located just south of my continent. And it was a pretty small island, with 8 cities on it. A nuke on each city with 3 transports of Modern Armor made it, and were an overkill, even.

In your situation, I suggest you assemble all you can and throw it at Moscow, though 8 tiles inland is bad...

	11-07-2002 01:28									#4
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If the Russian military is only slightly larger than yours, the game is already won. All you gotta do is goad them into a declaration of war....use whatever MPP cards you may be holding to get everybody to declare against them, send a big chunk of your best defenders (say, an even mix of MA/MI) onto their mainland, unload in a mountain tile, and sit there.

The AI will come up and throw everything they've got at you, and lose...horribly.

Or...if for some reason they don't behave in predictable fashion....if they ignore your substantial force, then reinforce it with some (12 or so) artillery, and slowly start taking cities (if it was me, I'd opt for raze and resettle). That should get their attention. And, if you can...find out which cities are currently working on ship parts. Burn them to the ground.



-=Vel=-

	11-07-2002 02:05									#5
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If no other civs are in the space race besides you and Russia, then you might want to abandon the spaceship part building for now and focus on military. Spaceship part building is probably occupying some of your best cities, which could be building military units. Focus all out on attacking the Russians, which should get them to stop building the spaceship also and build military instead. You'll basically just have to employ superior tactics to win, which can usually be done against the AI.

Since your continents are close, there's a good chance he'll land on your continent with an attack force without much warning. The AI is not particularly good at transport-based invasions, but he will do something. Keep a stack of 15 or so artillery around on your home continent so you can instantly move them to the invasion site using railroads and pound them.

Focus the rest of your resources on offense. Nukes are effective but expensive and one shot deals. Aircraft carriers full of bombers can bombard his cities over and over again, and make life much easier for you invading land forces. You'll probably want 3-4 carrier fulls (12-16 bombers), with accompanying destroyers or battleships for protection. If you can soften up a coastal city with bombers so that the defenders are all down to 1 hit point, you can then take it with a transport full of marines. You should probably raze any city you capture rather than capture it, since there's a good chance it will culture flip back otherwise.

As for the inland capital, look for coastal mountain or hill squares to land a stack of mech inf or regular infantry along with another stack of artillery. Try to march to within two squares of Moscow using only hill or mountain squares if possible, then setlle in and pound Moscow with your artillery (and your carrier-based bombers if they can reach). Meantime land a force of tanks or modern armor to capture and raze the capital once you've softened it.

Once you raze his capital, you can probably safely go back to spaceship building without worrying about the Russians beating you to it. They'll waste their time trying to destroy your remaining invasion force, which you no longer care about. Just keep your home artillery around in case he attempts a landing, and re-focus on the space race.

That's my two cents.

	11-07-2002 02:24									#6
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By the way, there is one major risk with the strategy I outlined above. If you can't get your offense going quickly enough, the Russians will finish the spaceship before you can distract them. But most likely the Russians still need to research a few more techs before they can finish it, so you're probably ok.

	11-07-2002 02:38									#7
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Do everything you can to blow the capital up. It'll buy you plenty of time.

Also, check Russia's land area. Have they built the Fuel Cells yet? Do they have uranium? If the answer to both is no, you're cool, because they CANNOT build the spaceship without uranium (a fact I discovered most unexpectedly in one of my earlier games). If they do have it, see if you can cut it off. If the cells are already built, raze the capital...

Here's a fun trick. Put down in their territory with a big defensive stack and let them attack. Better still, take a city and wait. A bunch of their units (the slow ones) will plop down 1 square from your city. Now, drop a nuke slightly away, such that their units are enveloped in the blast radius while yours are unharmed. This should cause MASSIVE casualties; two or three nukes should all but wipe out their entire force (and the way the AI works, it often *is* their entire force). Once they're crippled, press on to Moscow and burn it to the ground. Then do as you will with the rest of Russia as the game sails on to victory.

	11-07-2002 03:19									#8
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If the Russians don't have nukes they may not have any Uranium. If they don't have Uranium try to get the other civs in on a trade embargo. If they do have Uranium then you better be ready to get nuked.

Anyway taking their capital is a waste of time. You shouldn't have trouble beatting them to SS. Crank-up your research and build parts in your best cities. Build military in everything else. You don't need an effective campaign to distract the AI. I'll just send in MI stacks and start destroying their terrain improvements. I even used jaguar warriors once.

And always guard your capital well!!!

	11-07-2002 13:35									#9
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Hi,

I don't suggest you to attack Moscow. It probably very heavily defended, you need a huge army.... I allready experienced, how difficult it is on lower levels. You need maybe 5 nukes and 10 MAs for his capital...And ages....

Do it like barabarians, but intelligent. Send a horde of your fastest (mech.inf i think) units and destroy his roads, and other improvemts. You can concentrate on improvements around Moscow and bigger cities. He will have most probably most of his units in cities, and you can operate easier. Don't even attack his units! Just run away! Play hide-and-seek on his territory, and destroy what you can.

Unhappy russians will not build a spaceship. Make them unhappy. Cut his resources. You can do this with nukes, too but it is too expensive. Use your ships for coastal roads and resources.

This is a destructive tactics with only one goal: drop him back, cut his logistics.

Hope this helps

	11-07-2002 13:47									#10
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...or build hundred cavarlys then run and destroy.

	11-07-2002 15:05									#11
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8 tiles inland ... hmm.

You need 2 invasion forces.

First wave - land a force consisting of nothing but Mech Inf. Lots of mech inf. Fortify them if possible, and move them slowly towards the capital.

The AI will beat them up, and you will take losses, but after a few turns their available attack forces will diminish due to attrition. Once this happens, land another force consisting of a suitable mix of Modern Armor, Mech Inf and Artillery. If they have no nukes, it's safe to keep them together.

I think you can determine if they have Uranium by investigating a city and checking the Resource box.

	11-07-2002 17:52									#12
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Thank you all for your excellent ideas!

I will definately try the different iterations you have all offered. I did do some experimenting last night. I will go back to the point where I just started the war with the Russians and try some of your strategies. Here's what happened to me however..........


Continued my nuclear assault on Russia. I blasted 3 23+ size cities in the hopes that they were the ones making parts. I assume that when you nuke a city the resulting devastation to the surrounding countryside brings his production way down.

Then I landed a stack of 6 mech infantry, 3 modern armor, and airdroped a parachutist onto a mountain tile. The AI did indeed sacrifice many units all for nothing. My surviving 3 mech infantry made it all the way to Moscow but failed to take the city. Meanwhile I started a war with the Egyptians because they were the only civ with extra aluminum to sell. Haven't cut off their resources yet but I did nuke Russia's only aluminum and pillaged all the roads to the capital. No one has nuked me even though I've commited many atrocities. That might mean they either don't have the uranium or aren't willing to divert production. That's where the game ended. It is 2006.

What I'm gonna try is reload the game at 1991. Instead of researching stealth I will switch to superconductor. I have 8 parts built but need superconductor to finish the job. Russia has 6 parts built with 3 in production. Egypt has 2 parts built with 5 in production. The only other civ (France) has the ability to build the spaceship but I can't get a spy in there to see his progress. What I think I'll try is continue building spaceship parts. Then I will build MI and land them on a mountain and proceed to pillage galore. I'll try to get a second stack to try to take Moscow. Basically I'm going to attempt a hybrid of all of your strategies and see what I come up with. I am confident that if necessary I can fight the whole world, just so that I can keep pillaging resources. No one likes me so a MPP will be difficult to get. France would be the only canidate anyway and they are furious with me. I'm fairly certain that they don't have superconductor so I'm not worried about their spaceship attempt even though I can't see their progress.

So in a nutshell here's what I think I'll do:

1. continue to rain nukes on them ( 2 of my cities can build tactical nukes in 6 turns) no one has icbm's

2. land a stack of 8-10 MI and pillage Russia galore! Maybe even slowly make my way to their capital.

3. maintain my existing 8 artillery on my homeland to ward off any agressors.

4. continue building spaceship parts. Only two more to go once I get superconductor

5. raze any cities that I can get to that have been nuked, if they are on my way to the capital

6. concentrate on building one carrier group loaded with bombers and do as much damage to Russia as possible.

I believe that I have the production power to handle all of this. This is by far the most interesting game I've ever played in Civ3. I owe my success so far to all of you here at Apolyton for all your strategy threads. thanks a bunch guys. Now only have to get through 7 more hours of work so I can go home and finish this game. I'll keep you all posted.

	11-07-2002 18:58									#13
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Hi,

I like forums / threads like this. It is very nice to see the result of the many suggestions.

By the way, post a short message when you capture Moscow

	11-07-2002 19:12									#14
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Continuous sabotage. Of course, you'll need a gob of cash to do so. End the war.

Use your spies to find and sabotage each Russian spaceship part when it is a couple turns away from completion. I've never been behind in a space race.

I'm surprised to see no one's suggested this.

Last edited by dunk on 11-07-2002 at 19:18

	11-07-2002 21:53									#15
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So few people use espionage that most don't even know you can do that! I've never tried it.

	11-07-2002 22:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by albiedamned So few people use espionage that most don't even know you can do that! I've never tried it.

I've had it happen to me in one game I played last week. The French kept sabotaging production in 2 of my cities during a war I was fighting with them. It really didn't hurt me too much but I did end up losing that game at retirement due to low score.

	11-07-2002 22:10									#17
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I have lowered costs of espionage slightly, and made extensive use in my last war.

	12-07-2002 16:41									#18
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Hi all,

Just thought I'd update you all on my progress so far.

I reloaded my 1991 saved game and proceeded as follows:

Landed a stack of 8 units on a mountain in Russia's continent. Continued reinforcing this stack for the next several turns. The Russians initially threw everything they had at me but could not dislodge my stack from the mountain. Most of the stack however was decimated in the open when they tried to run across plains to get to the next mountain range. No matter I still had on MA and one MI at the gates of Moscow. All I need to do now is nuke Moscow again and capture the city on the same turn.

Meanwhile I built 8 parts. I had been at war with Egypt but they agreed to peace. We then exchanged techs, my superconductor for their sattelites. Now I have all the techs needed for the spaceship.

Egypt is hopelessly behind in the spaceship race and Russia should be taken care of soon. I finally planted a spy in France and discovered they are not even attempting to build a spaceship. This game should be mine.

And then it happened..........

During a routine go to command for a stack of workers my game crashed!!!!!! It seems the workers needed to move through one of my cities to get to the tile I instructed them to go to. The workers all attacked the city instead of moving through it and then the game immediately crashed to the desktop! I've seen people discuss this bug before and was astonished to see it happen to me. I'm using 1.21f. Needless to say I quit for the night but will continue again after another reload.

Another bug I noticed was this; attempted to move a destroyer into a coastal city. The destroyer attacked my own city and died! Has anyone else experienced this?

	12-07-2002 18:37									#19
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Haha! I though they fixed attacking own cities in 1.21f. Before you proceed next time, stop those damned workers, maybe also the destroyer, if it's still there.

	14-07-2002 06:56									#20
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Hello

Though you might not need any more help, try taking a look at my 'strategy report' at http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=54848 Though you probably won't need to use it, I bet you could figure out a way to use this tactic in order to set them back in the space race.

	14-07-2002 22:10									#21
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Interesting read johncmcleod. In my game I did use helicopter dropped paratroopers. I used them to distract the defenders while landing my main assualt force on their continent. While the paratroopers didn't divert too many defenders, my main force was able to get 3 MA within range of Moscow.

Turned out I didn't need to capture Moscow as I used a great leader to complete the last Spaceship part and win the game.

Attached see a screenshot. Thanks to all who helped me win my first game at regent!

Attachment: space win 1a.jpg
This has been downloaded 45 time(s).

	14-07-2002 22:24									#22
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I'm currently close to completing my second Regent win game. Will probably finish tomorrow, hoperfully, with a win. I had completely epic 8 or so turns!

	14-07-2002 22:56									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky If the Russians don't have nukes they may not have any Uranium. If they don't have Uranium try to get the other civs in on a trade embargo. If they do have Uranium then you better be ready to get nuked.

You need Uranium to build one of the spaceship parts.

So if they have no nukes and no uranium, it's doubtful that they can build all spaceship parts. This just happened to me as my only source of uranium ran out a few turns before I got the last research done (probably superconductor). I even had a leader to rush the part but I had no uranium anywhere near me. And I did not have oil on my continent either so a naval campaign was impossible at that point in the game.