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Xin Yu
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Emeryville, CA, USA
Jan 1970
time: 21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Starlifter
DOUBLE GROWTH
Note: If the food excess (E) was less than 5 and you have Pyr/Grn, you'll need 2 caravans/freight (not just one) to accomplish the Double Growth feat via Car/Frt on the next turn.
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I don't think food excess less than 5 is the reason. You need either 1 or 2 or even 3 caravans to fill the food box (each will fill half of the box, so it depends on how much food you have accrued. When you have a deficit in food box you need 3 caravans, but this does not happen often since people take care of it immediately to avoid famine), then the next turn the city will grow 'natually' by one, and food left in the foodbox is either halved (with Pyramid/granary) or emptied, and the excess or deficit food of that turn is added/substracted. Since the added citizen can work on food square, the excess food does not necessarily be smaller than the previous turn. Now if the city still satisfy celebration growth condition (at least half happy and no unhappy, with at least one excess food), it can grow one more. Since the new citizen's working position is out of human control often the celebration growth condition is no longer valid after the first grow (but if the player can be careful enough to leave the most-food production square empty, the AI will surely put the new citizen there.)
quote:
Originally posted by Starlifter
Extra note: Double Growth can occur "Naturally" (With no Food Car/Frt help) if the city's excess food production exceeds (10*(S+2) - F).
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Is this for double growth without celebration? I don't know about it. If celebration is involved then you only need one excess food plus a full food box (plus maintaining one excess food and happiness after growing by one). Even when celebration is not involved, the calculation should be based on next turn after population has grown by 1, not this turn.
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Starlifter
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Seattle's Rain....
Jun 2002
time: 21:20
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quote:
I don't think food excess less than 5 is the reason. |
Actually, it is. 5 comes from half of ten, and ten being the number of rows in a food box. When the 1st growth (due to filled food box) occurs, here is what happens:
Assume size 7. (S=7). The size of the food box is 10*(7+1)=80 units of food. Assuming Pyramids or Granary, if you fill the food box, the city size will increase, then the box will become half filled. You now have 5*(S+2), or 5*(7+2)=45 icons. Compute the excess food at this point, E. Assume E=3. 3 food icons are now added to the 45. You now have 48.
If the city cannot fulfill the Proper Celebration Growth Conditions, then the final result is a Size 8 city with 48 food.
If the city DOES fulfill the Proper Celebration Growth Conditions, then the city grows by yet another Citizen, to size 9. The contents of the food box do not change due to Celebration Growth. The result it a food box with a capacity of 10*(9+1), or 100 food. Half of this value is 50. But 48 is less than half the food box, or said another way, 48 is less than 50. If you add a single Food Car/Food Frt (FC/FF), then you get 50 more food: 48+50=98.
Now, 98 is equal to or greather than 100, so the city does not have a full food box. As long as the city remains at size 9 thru the next turn and no more FC/FF are added to it, then it cannot grow due to a full food box, and hence cannot Double Grow (add 2 citizens) next turn. You must to add a 2nd FC/FF to cause Double Growth in this example of food excess less than 5 (E<5).
And all this happened because the city did not have 5 or more excess food..... it means for 2 more food, you can save a food freight when achieving Double Growth ( in this example) on the next turn.
SUMMARY: You must have an excess of 5 or more food in order to use just one FC/FF to achieve Double Growth on the next turn. If the city produced 4 or less, you will need 2 (with pyramids/granary) TC/FF. If you are running a food deficit, you cannot have Double Growth. You need at least one grain icon. Hence you never need 3 or more FC/FF. Which leads to your next question.....
quote:
You need either 1 or 2 or even 3 caravans to fill the food box (each will fill half of the box, so it depends on how much food you have accrued. When you have a deficit in food box you need 3 caravans |
Not true. You never need 3 FC/FF to cause Double Growth. You also do not need 3 FC/FF to cause regular single growth due to full food box. No food box contains more than 2*(1/2) capacity  . Deficit has nothing to do with triggering growth due to Full Food Box. If the Box is full, the city will grow on the next turn (no matter what the deficit). Without Pyramids or Granary, a food deficit will then remove that new citizen, and the net gain will be nothing (7+1-1=7). If the deficit still exists next turn, and no FC/FF come in to help, the city will drop to 6. Add a FC/FF and the result will be ( 40-(deficit) ) in this case, and the size will remain at 7.
quote:
Now if the city still satisfy celebration growth condition (at least half happy and no unhappy, with at least one excess food), it can grow one more. |
It must also have celebrated the prior turn, e.g., have the Celebration flag set. 
quote:
Since the new citizen's working position is out of human control often the celebration growth condition is no longer valid after the first grow (but if the player can be careful enough to leave the most-food production square empty, the AI will surely put the new citizen there.) |
Often, but not always. It will add an Elvis as the city get bigger, even with several open 4-food tiles. See the game example in my prior post. Of course, it stupidly will place a citizen on a tile without trade at times, and that may make the difference in Lux to keep the Celebration condition active. 
quote:
Originally posted by Starlifter:
Extra note: Double Growth can occur "Naturally" (With no Food Car/Frt help) if the city's excess food production exceeds (10*(S+2) - F).
<http://64.246.32.51/b.gif>
Is this for double growth without celebration? I don't know about it. If celebration is involved then you only need one excess food plus a full food box (plus maintaining one excess food and happiness after growing by one). Even when celebration is not involved, the calculation should be based on next turn after population has grown by 1, not this turn. |
Yes -- the only way to get Double Growth is via both Filled Food box (Algorithm Step #1)and Fulfilled Celebration condiiton (see Algorithm steps #3 & #4). What you left out (or overlooked) was my next sentence, which is "The 'natural' double growth will occur on the following turn (because of filled food box)."
The word "following" was italicized to emphasize this very point ... the growth due to the food box full (which was filled by exceeding (10*(S+2) - F), assuming no new added FC/FF ) will not occur until the next turn. But if you want that double growth next turn without any help from FC/FF, you need (10*(S+2) - F) .
But it is sort of complicated, like I warned at the top of the first post.
Hope that helps.... I'm willing to bet that many of you have had double growth (natural) without realizing it.
Last edited by Starlifter on 20-07-2002 at 00:38
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La Fayette
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albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:20
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war4ever
The word 'sox' isn't in my dictionary. 'Socks' is there, with the meaning that I learnt at school: 'chaussettes' = some kind of shorter stockings stopping right under one's knee. I supposed that 'sox' was modern American spelling for 'socks'. Is that right?
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19-07-2002 21:20
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