24-08-2002 12:14									#31
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by ddd I recommend Unification+Artifacts, Democracy+Lithovore or Dictatorship+Subterranen+Lithovore.

I agree that Dem+Liv is very good, subliv not bad either, but no way do I want any Uni in a non MP game. I do play them as I play every form at some point, but I find no value in them. Yes UniTol or UniTel are good, but replace the Uni with many things and the Tol or Tels are going to work.

	24-08-2002 16:16									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Whoever gets tagged with repulsive in any given game tends to be my bane in early games. Since trading away good techs and giving away the not-so-good hand over fist is a core strategy for me, I tend to be everyone else's very bestest friend!

	24-08-2002 16:24									#33
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 It is wise to eliminate an ceative race ASAP, you will not like them when they have all of the tech and ou don't.

HECK NO! They are the key to you getting all the tech, particularly those you might never get because they're tucked in with something critical (having holo simulator, planetary supercomputer, and positronic computer together comes instantly to mind). This is especially true if you're strong enough to demand lesser techs from them; otherwise, you always look at them first,but trade with them last when you're doing your tech-trading rounds, so they can fill in the gaps. Remember, you canalways use 'demand' to see every tech a race has, and then cancel without penalty.

	24-08-2002 20:47									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

BTW -- my current race, the 'CyberCyrens': Elerian Pic, Dictatorship, Aquatic, Subterranean, Large Homeworld, Cybernetic, Charismatic. Pre-Warp. Huge Standard steup, Eight Players, Hard difficulty.

It was 70 turns before I even built my first ship, and the first two races I met were the Sakkra and the Silicoids, both repulsive.

	24-08-2002 22:43									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk HECK NO! They are the key to you getting all the tech, particularly those you might never get because they're tucked in with something critical (having holo simulator, planetary supercomputer, and positronic computer together comes instantly to mind). This is especially true if you're strong enough to demand lesser techs from them; otherwise, you always look at them first,but trade with them last when you're doing your tech-trading rounds, so they can fill in the gaps. Remember, you canalways use 'demand' to see every tech a race has, and then cancel without penalty.

You can see what tech they have with out going to "demand". just go to the race info and you can see all they have. The difference is it can be hard to keep track of what you need, while the deman shows what you do not have.
I like to play a repulsive to prevent any trades or demanding on my part, sort of a handicap.
I only want planetary missiles from them early after that what I get is just a bonus and I will get it by stealing.
I feel like demanding is sort unfair as the AI is not to smart.
Anyway a creative race can make it rough as it acquires more and more tech, that I will not have. Things like heavy armor and dauntless so the missiles move to another target, good computers and I will only have EE for a very long time.

	24-08-2002 22:50									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk BTW -- my current race, the 'CyberCyrens': Elerian Pic, Dictatorship, Aquatic, Subterranean, Large Homeworld, Cybernetic, Charismatic. Pre-Warp. Huge Standard steup, Eight Players, Hard difficulty.

I have often said that any race can be made to work at hard or less, but CYBer is one that has no value at all. I like Aqua/Sub/Large. Charm will make this easier, but 3 picks can give you Large/Rich or Artie or better yet +R. I tend to not use Sub as you can get it for free by slaving Saks. 6 picks can do a lot. At hard level you can get away with lessor traits.

	25-08-2002 07:51									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Its all a matter of play style.

I can always keep track of what I need, because I want everything. I can never remember what they have over the time it takes to check their info and then contact the the buggers -- yep, my memory is that shot -- so its easier for me to call up the demand screen.

Since conquering everybody is not my style (quite the opposite, in fact), I don't beeline the military techs. My usual research path is something along the lines of Automated Factories>Research Labs>RoboMiners>Pollution Processors>Etc., with Freighters thrown in once I need them and Colony Ships only when the home system has been filled. I often don't even lauch a frigate until trun 70 or so, but by that time I have a very well developed home system with everything up to Star Bases in place.

I like cybernetic. I like the fact that you waste fewer workers on food, can settle worlds without food and not lose population (I mean initially), and have regenerating ships without spending a slot. Sure, the initial building is slow, but I'm throwing everyone I can into research anyway to quickly acquire Automated Factories, which serves to cancel out the industrial penalty nicely.

	25-08-2002 08:21									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Originally posted by The Mad Monk Its all a matter of play style.

Well not to sound offensive or anything, but words have meaning so I have to say if you mean it is a matter of style to have fun, I agree. But for best effect some styles are better than others and some traits are more valuable than others. I just like to point out the merits or lack for a given trait for others to be aware of or prove me wrong, if I have been under a misunderstanding or interpretation. The best part of Moo2 is that you can do many different things and still win and or have fun. I like to test out how some traits work by using the same map with varying races and traits and measure the outcome to see how it goes and verify or not my experience. So if I think race Y is poor, I test it and see if that is a fact or am I just inaccurately recalling past events. Did it accomplish things at the same milestones as other superior races/traits or not.


"Since conquering everybody is not my style (quite the opposite, in fact), I don't beeline the military techs. My usual research path is something along the lines of Automated Factories>Research Labs>RoboMiners>Pollution Processors>Etc., with Freighters thrown in once I need them and Colony Ships only when the home system has been filled. I often don't even lauch a frigate until trun 70 or so, but by that time I have a very well developed home system with everything up to Star Bases in place."

I do similarly, no ship other than scout early unless Tele. Frieghers come early (50rp?) as I want them to sent food where needed and pop at times.

	28-08-2002 01:57									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Dictatorship, Aquatic, Subterranean, Large Homeworld, Cybernetic, Charismatic. Pre-Warp.

Charismatic is almost useless if everybody is repulsive. Maybe it will attract some really good heros. Maybe not. You never know.

Cybernetic people eat production. Hard to colonize ultra poor planets (because no production at all). Also housing works slower. So You have to have +1 production or Tolerant.

I think good cybernetic races may look like:
Unification/Cybernetic/Tolerant
Unification/Cybernetic/Subterranean/+1 production
Dictatorship/Cybernetic/Aquatic/Subterranean/+1 production
Democratic/Cybernetic/Subterranean/+1 production

Hard to make cybernetic pick work.

	28-08-2002 03:33									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Those racial picks work even better if you drop cyber and spend the them on +r or +P or LHW or AHW, you get the picture.

	28-08-2002 15:05									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think cybernetic sucks. It's incredible it's a plus pick - I always pity the poor Meklars.

	29-08-2002 13:29									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have to say darkloks would be the toughest as well. But not so much the framing or tech stealng from me, it's when psilons are also in the that they get REALLY annoying. The last game I played, I didn't think the darloks would be a problem since they were on the other side of the galaxy. Little did I know, those idiot psilons had already researched unlimited range and adamantium armor and got them BOTH stolen by the darloks. To make matters worse, they then frame me for stealing tech from the psilons, who were previously my allies. While I send my forces off to hold off the psilons, 2 dozen cloaked and adamantium armored battlecruisers suddenly appears on top of my homeworld and completely massacres it, space fortress and all. And I had xentronium armor at the time!

With the repulsives I don't usually have too much trouble since they usually fall behind in the tech race and once I either scrap an antaran ship or take orion, their big but worthless fleets can't do squat against one of my titans. If i start near a repulsive, I just spend a little more on making other friends and demand they go to war against the repulsives even though I'm not. If you're not allied they you won't get dragged into it, and most times even if I'm allied, they don't seem to ask me to join the war much. It's funny, demanding a cpu on impossible to make war takes almost no effort but ask for just one tech for free and they go to war with you in a second.