13-07-2002 20:12									#31
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This is one where I am having a most difficult time.

Trip was an excellent president. It is due to him, frankly, that this thing got off the ground when it did. And he performed admirably with the possible exception of missing a few chats, and the delay in getting info out the other day. Things happen, though, and this is what the vice president is there for.

Ninot, conversely, was the perfect Foriegn Affairs Minister, reporting detailed reports on each nation we discovered. And also was flawless with the possible exception of including campaign issues in his last official report.

Both are promising a detailed official site, hub of information that is desperately needed. It is truly a tough choice, and the people, I believe, can't lose either way.

And, yet once more, I must agree with MrWIA, who likely has my vote WHATEVER WHENEVER he wants to run for ANYTHING, lets link to the campaign threads and leave the politics out of these threads.

	14-07-2002 00:11									#32
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*bump*

Let's vote, people.

And I echo Unorthodox's sentiments-- we're blessed with two first-rate candidates. Either way, Apolytonia's in good hands.

	14-07-2002 00:32									#33
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Thankyou for the generous remarks. I honestly don't think I was the absolute perfect Foreign Affairs Minister... but its good to know my work was appreciated.

As for some issues MWIA raised

I am personally deeply concerned that currently anyone east of the Atlantic ocean has a harder time participating. And, for that matter, as it is, with our "comprimised" schedule, its hard for NA cirtizens to join just as well..

An idea came to mind earlier. I dont know how hard it would be to put it into effect, but I'm pondering the possibility of having specific turnchats to appeal to our European friends. It might not be like bringing back the time of the turnchat by an hour, but I think its the best way we can comprimise.

	14-07-2002 00:46									#34
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K, here as some of my more refined ideas to get better turnchat hours:

1: 5pm GMT turnchats on weekends
2: if the VP or Prez can't comply, a Euro Crew (basically just a new post which would be the "night crew" of the Prez and VP) who might play one turnchat per week for the Euro's

But, IMHO, 11:00 pm GMT doesnt work for anyone as well as something else might.

	14-07-2002 04:36									#35
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YIPEE!!!!!!!!!!! IT FINALLY LET ME VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	14-07-2002 06:01									#36
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I have highest respect for Trip, and our public disagreements don't mean we don't respect each other. Trip and myself are both interested in making this game smoother and better.

However, I really have to vote for Ninot, because Trip has become a politician, in the bad sense. It's written : "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". In almost all his late work, Trip has been eager to take away power from the people to give it to himself or his cabinet. Is it way to increase his power ? Is it sincere ? I don't know. But I'm sure Trip views are more antidemocratic than Ninot's.

Moreover, Trip reacted very emotionally when people stated their disapproval of his propositions. Maybe because he put much work writing them... Maybe because he hates disagreement, I don't know. But he sure showed he's not really a man of dialogue, nor humility. Dialogue and humility are the great qualities of Ninot, and should be the qualities of a President : when you have to obey ministers' orders for each move, modesty and dialogue are primordial.

That's why I say Ninot is our best candidate.

	14-07-2002 06:11									#37
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If you think I'm really just trying to hoarde power, see what happens when people want to have a say on every move of every unit in turnchats at 10 AD with 50 units. Then we'll see. We'll see how democratic the government seems when turnchats will no longer be possible, and the President has to play the entire 'turnchat' himself, without any input.

And I didn't get emotional when people disagreed.
I was upset that I had posted the final amendment in a thread, asked for more input.... got none, then I put it up. Suddenly, everyone and their grandma strikes it down for 1 thing or another they find in it... okay...

I ask you, dear "Spiffy", when has there been problems during a turnchat with me 'disobeying' ministers' orders? Or are you saying that "well, since he's like this, he won't be good at that," despite the fact that nothing has happened? I think you're making drastic generalizations of my character, and you will find out in a few months, when the form of the game has to change, you'll realize what I was doing was helping the game more than hurting it. I suppose that doesn't matter now though, wouldn't you agree?

	14-07-2002 07:33									#38
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Ack! Why is it that whenever a DIA says something good about me, they something bad about Trip?

Well, I guess it IS inherrent that if I were to be complimented, it would mean my competitor is not as worthy of that compliment as I. Its not fair, but its only logical.

In turnchats, Trip has conducted himself well. This is not to say I will conduct myself just as well, but I see no reason to knock his person for being difficult in turnchats.

	14-07-2002 08:16									#39
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Trip has done an excellent job (to me) as the president. i'm just wanting to know if Ninot can do a better one. i want a change of blood. lets see what happens.

	14-07-2002 08:18									#40
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Even if he doesn't, I won't be around anymore anyways.

	14-07-2002 09:14									#41
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Even tho I love each and everyone of your votes, I beg of you

DONT vote for me simply because you want a change of blood. honestly, I dont think thats a very good reason. Vote for me because of my history, or my promisses. But Trip has done a good job, and changing presidents just for the sake of it isnt prudent.

Vote for me because you want to, not because you want to make things 'interesting'.

	14-07-2002 10:57									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Thankyou for the generous remarks. I honestly don't think I was the absolute perfect Foreign Affairs Minister... but its good to know my work was appreciated. As for some issues MWIA raised I am personally deeply concerned that currently anyone east of the Atlantic ocean has a harder time participating. And, for that matter, as it is, with our "comprimised" schedule, its hard for NA cirtizens to join just as well.. An idea came to mind earlier. I dont know how hard it would be to put it into effect, but I'm pondering the possibility of having specific turnchats to appeal to our European friends. It might not be like bringing back the time of the turnchat by an hour, but I think its the best way we can comprimise.

Could it maybe ever eventually be possible in the distant future for our European friends to have a seperate Democracy that could play head to head with a North American democracy (along with all of the other AI civs, of course) in a game of friendly competitive spirit. It would be kinda like multiplayer. I think that might be cool, it would allow for much more interesting diplomacy, having two "human" players. Maybe even an Asian democracy if they have enough people wanting to play. The North American democracy could probably even be split into two. uh... just a thought, probably couldn't work - i dunno the game mechanics very well yet.

Kman

edit: I guess this could be for the Play the World democracy game

	14-07-2002 12:13									#43
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The Expansion could very well bring that about...

	14-07-2002 12:41									#44
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More likely us against cfc and cgn.

	14-07-2002 18:33									#45
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still a 3-vote lead for ninot...every time i've looked at it it's been a 3 vote difference!

	14-07-2002 20:13									#46
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I don't think 1-turnchat-per-week for just the Euro crew would be good. I think we should ONLY have one turnchat a week.

	14-07-2002 20:29									#47
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i disagree. i think an optimum number of turnchats is 2-3...

there would be too much time with nothing to do if we made it weekly.

As it is, with our current spacing of turnchats, we dont have that many official and important polls to stop us from keeping this schedule.

	14-07-2002 20:53									#48
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It's getting hard to follow what's going on.

	14-07-2002 21:39									#49
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less turnchats wont make it easier to follow, the only difference there would be less actual news. There would still be a good dozen threads a day to catch up upon, which means checking in everyday anyways.

	14-07-2002 21:49									#50
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If I'm elected, I'm going to try to shift things away from turnchats. I missed 2 or 3 in a row, and I found myself spending about 3 hours trying to catch up completely. Something else has to be done. I'm going to try to investigate the 'turnthread' idea, where everything is laid out for the public to see. The problem is getting as much done with those as we would with a turnchat, but I suppose that's why it's a challenge.

	14-07-2002 22:30									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Trip If you think I'm really just trying to hoarde power, see what happens when people want to have a say on every move of every unit in turnchats at 10 AD with 50 units. Then we'll see.

Maybe the turnthreads idea could solve this where only ministers are allowed to post and they give purely factual information on what they want to happen over the next few turns, its just an idea, or

	14-07-2002 22:49									#52
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Trip, IMNSHO, that's a great idea.

	14-07-2002 23:09									#53
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I like the idea too.

The problem is to figure out how to get as many turns in a turnthread as we can in a turnchat, while still giving the people a say, and having things detailed enough to understand. I'll try bouncing some ideas around during the next turnchat in a couple hours.

	14-07-2002 23:54									#54
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well, how long could they last before getting cluttered?

and, of course, ministers would need to be allowed to execute some of their orders before actually ordering them...

example, the trading spree I went on in the last turnchat, that would be alot of posts if i couldnt just do it, and then report it.

But this is getting OT

I support turnthreads too, but i highly reccommend we figure out the optimum way of doing one before we dive into it.

	14-07-2002 23:57									#55
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You should tell everyone what you're going to do before you do it.

	15-07-2002 00:00									#56
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then how do you propose we execute turnthreads?

	15-07-2002 00:23									#57
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I agree completely that we should work out how thing work before we dedicate all turns to that system. The plan is to run a 'test turnthread' next Wednesday to see how it works.

P.S. The lead that Ninney holds seems to be evaporating.
I thought that whoever pulled ahead after the first day would begin to wipe the other guy out. Who would have guessed a stalemate after 3 days.

	15-07-2002 00:28									#58
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It's so close...

	15-07-2002 00:34									#59
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Trip got my vote.....

	15-07-2002 01:16									#60
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*cough* *hack* *cough*
*clears his throat*
Um, yes, I see this is quite a race still, could be anyone's victory. You know, my vote is still for sale... if you are are still interested. Might turn the tide in favor of either candidate really.