13-07-2002 04:54									#1
	Monarchy vs Democracy in this Situation Put an end to popups!

You cleared out your continent, it is huge you have settled it all and have 50 + cities. Japan did a dunkirk style evacuation and is sailing around in a little trirame with a settler that you are having a hard time tracking down..to finish of and you are still at war. Then egypt declares war with you from overseas. There are 2 wars going on.

You are midway thru the middel ages tech tree..wanting to make a b line to cavalry. You wanted to switch to democracy and not fight wars and go research to gain a tech andvantage and then go back to war.

Would it be a mistake to switch from monarchy to democracy in this case? Will these 2 wars make weariness a problem even if you don't have troops outside your border and are trying not to fight any battles? Or as long as these AI leaders are declaring war on you premptively and refusing to see your envoy are they thus "Slyly" preventing you from changing to a more effective government.

This kinda seems like a sly trick by the ai. To make sure they have a war going on with you in order to keep you in a less effecient government.

I don't know how war weariness works even if you aren't fighting battles and your enemy is in a trireme somwhere or across the seas. I don't wanna be at war but there seems to be nothing I can do about it at the moment.

	13-07-2002 07:18									#2
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looks like I am screwed with egypt if i can't get to a better form of govt... they are matching me tech wise by about 1 turn... I thought I had the game won..but now it looks like i was premature do due to this situation.

This is gonna be annoying..apparantly this question is a stumper as I had feared. Seems war weariness is a big mystery from what I have read vaguely on the boards. From posts I have read If at war for any amount of time..no way can you go to democracy. I would also get a hefty anarchy period as well probably 7 turns.

	13-07-2002 08:10									#3
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I would say you probably want to stay in Monarchy until you can either destroy or make peace with Japan.

War weariness is still one of the least understood concepts in the game, IMHO, and I can't say (nor do I think others could with any conviction) how your citizens would react to a democratic form of government. I assume you're not playing a religious civ (since you say that the anarchy would last 7 turns probably), and the thought of going through that long anarchy only to find that war weariness throws your democracy into anarchy right away would be exceptionally painful. A few extra turns in Monarchy won't cripple your research, and when you do come out of the wars and move to a democracy (consider republic!) watch what happens to your tech race with Egypt!

I'd hang tight, try to make peace / destroy Japan, and not worry too much about Cleo unless you want the Egyptian war as an opportunity to expand across the oceans. Then make peace with Cleo and immediately thereafter revolt and go to democracy (or republic!).

Catt

	13-07-2002 09:12									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Right now I am a pretty big empire for a standard size map. I own the largest continent, I have 110 units and can support up to 175 under my monarchy. I am thinking of upgrading my 35 riders to cavalry once I get it and upgrading my 10 or so caravels to galleons and taking war to egypt. Even tho she will have cavalry too most likely by that time. There is only one saltpeter reserve on that other continent as well. So I can us emy vast resources to bribe at will.

I own like 5 salt peter reserves and 6 different luxuries I bribed germany even tho they hate me with 4 luxuries to ally with me against egypt and they are on the same continent as a diverionary tactic. Once I get magnatism I am going to bribe russia with saltpeter and luxuries to declare on egypt as well. Then I will stage my cavalry invasion and attempt to wipe egypt off the map with a genocidal war policy. Even tho cleo wants peace now..I think I am staying with monarch and continuing this war under that new plan.

Then of course I will have to carry on my genocide against Russia and Germany too. BTW I found that Japanese settler hiding out by a german city and killed off japan so it is just me and egypt at war..With Germany and soon Russia to be allied with me as well.

	13-07-2002 09:30									#5
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If that's your plan, I would stay in Monarchy without another worry -- I don't think Democracy has much to offer your civ, and the drawbacks (principally war weariness) are severe, if they ever come to be.

Just remain as King (as opposed to Mr. President), and methodically wipe out those who would challenge the crown.

Catt

	13-07-2002 21:05									#6
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Artifex, What's your difficulty level set to?

	13-07-2002 23:28									#7
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Kizami- I'm playing at monarch level.

I might give emperor a try my next go round. Well it is 1350 and I have cleo on the ropes. Just took thebes, along with about 75% of her empire. She had like 10 musketeers in there and I attacked with around 30 cavalry. Lol she killed off about 25% of my force during the seige. But alas I took the city finally and got a great leader. General Tso ROFL. As in General Tso's chicken. I see Sid has a since of humour..that was worth a good laugh. I say within the next 30-40 turns I will have the world conquered..Then I might give Rome a whirl..but I really have liked china.

	14-07-2002 21:38									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wow, i have yet to win the game by world conquest...though i am currently playing a game where that is my goal. Oh yeah since it looks like you are going to be in a long war 40-45 turns you should really be a monarchy. I am really just repeating what Catt said though.