13-07-2002 06:53									#1
	Independent Moderate Party Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes, I know the name is an oxymoron. Shut up already

First, I am withdrawing from the UFC and the Hawk Party.

This is a "party", but it is devoted to NOT using party politics. We have no agenda. I know that I have used partisan politics in the past, but I am not proud of it. This is a party for people such as Sir Ralph. With a few exceptions, all of the Independents are also relatively moderate.

A moderate is someone who recognizes the need for war, but does not support it when it is not clearly beneficial. A moderate is someone who recognizes the need for peace, but is willing to support war when needed. A moderate is someone who knows that we cannot poll everything, and cannot poll nothing, and seeks to find the balance. A moderate walks the middle ground.

Despite some of the things I have supported in the past, I am not a warmonger. If you don't believe me, I'll send you a savefile of one of my games. I usually don't go to war until the late Modern Age.

An Independent is someone who refuses to use partisan politics. An Independent is someone who will support people based on their merits, not their party allegiance. An Independent is, well, independent.

I have used partisan politics in the past. I am not proud of that. I will not do so anymore.

This party will not run candidates. This party will not vote as a bloc. This party will not have a real agenda on any issue. This party is for those who are having to choose between black, white, or nothing. Members of the UFC and the DIA are encouraged to vote on party lines. Members of this party vote for who they think is the best for the job.

My hope is that this party will draw enough people out of the two major parties to put an end to partisan politics, or at least give the average Independent a chance. My hope is that this party will reverse the process of polarization underway, or at least halt it and create a middle ground. My hope is that this party will not succeed and grow strong rallying behind a banner, but just let people be themselves.

	13-07-2002 07:07									#2
	Re: Independent Moderate Party Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by skywalker This party will not run candidates. This party will not vote as a bloc. This party will not have a real agenda on any issue. This party is for those who are having to choose between black, white, or nothing. Members of the UFC and the DIA are encouraged to vote on party lines. Members of this party vote for who they think is the best for the job.

Then what's the point really? I'm a UFC member and I vote for who I think will do the best job. I voted for several DIA and Independant candidates today even when they were up against UFC candidates. I have also spoken out about the value of learning to cross party lines to obtain our mututal goals. I think you're underestimating the inteligence of this community. Partisan politics are here to stay. If anything, more parties are going to emerge as we go along.

	13-07-2002 07:08									#3
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Aaaa!!! someone beet me to it. LordImpact...would you be interested in a reporter job???

	13-07-2002 07:13									#4
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LordImpact - I am not talking about the citizens. I said that the parties supported voting along party lines.

Unorthodox -

In response to your first question, it is not against party politics. It is devoted to NOT USING party politics.

For your second question, no, it would not. Most people would not just leave a party. This gives them the opportunity to stay within the relative security of a party while being independent.

	13-07-2002 07:22									#5
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker LordImpact - I am not talking about the citizens. I said that the parties supported voting along party lines.

Just because a party supports it, doesn't mean citizens are going to do it. Parties don't vote as a whole, citizens vote individually.

	13-07-2002 07:23									#6
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skywalker,

I understand where you are comming from. I just feel that most of those who are Independant will not join your party on principle. And most of those IN parties are there to stay.

Parties host candidates, yes, but INDIVIDUALS are the ones who must wake up and live with who they voted for. If some are not strong enough to follow their gut, and strictly follow party lines, they must live with that.

That being said, if you would like to compose a letter to my paper, I will print it. If yo want it in the Party section, pm me and I will give you the format. Time is of the essence, though, as my edition is nearing completion.


GRRR, beat me again

	13-07-2002 07:24									#7
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skywalker, it appears as if the whole purpose of this party is trying to make a party for sir ralph.

making a party for sir ralph makes you the biggest oxymoron of them all.

and no ones forcing people to vote along party lines in any way. hell, 3/4 of our party will probably vote for sir ralph, because he really is the better man for the job. all of the points you made have either dont exist or are worked out.

and why would independents need soemthing to declare that they are independent? it makes no sense at all.

good luck with your "party" or whatever you want to call it, but if you want to sit there and point a finger at parties, don't ever think of comming back to one.

and while im on this rant, I'd like to publicly denounce you.

The fact that you said you weren't a warmonger makes me laugh to no end. Who ruined a turnchat by screaming "ATTACK THE FRENCH SETTLER! WAR WAR WAR!". surely you recall that. sounds like a peaceloving person. i'm suprised you weren't in the DIA.

That little fiasco was caused a huge dent in your public image, of public opinion of you, of public opion OF THE PARTY (UFC), and to make matters worse, it was before an election where you were running for the UFC.

Most of the UFC (if not all) were completely shocked at your attitude / actions during the turnchat, and there was even quiet discussion of replacing you as our candidate, and even talks of removign you from the party entirely, because simply, you (or at least your online persona) are an ass.

you made the party look bad, and now you sit there and talk down at the party system as a whole. good job.

	13-07-2002 07:26									#8
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No, I don't want an advertisement. I don't want to champion ideals. I don't want anyone in this party who doesn't join because they actually think this way.

	13-07-2002 07:29									#9
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I was thinking of a letter to the editor voicing your opinion on parties and thier destructive nature. You will see the party section isas neutral as possible as well, no advertisements.

	13-07-2002 07:35									#10
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Uber -

I'm trying to fix my mistakes. You are blasting me for it. That's your right, but I disagree with your opinions.

Unorthodox -

Possibly next edition. I'll have to think about it.

	13-07-2002 08:29									#11
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Traitor! No one crosses the Hawk party! I hope your party actually becomes a real party. Damn the two party system, its so boring.

	13-07-2002 09:11									#12
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this is the second time Skywalker has withdrawn membership for a party.

But an independant party IS an oxy moron.

	13-07-2002 09:22									#13
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quote: screaming "ATTACK THE FRENCH SETTLER! WAR WAR WAR!".

i'm sorry this is actually quite funny.

i supppose i shouldn't encourage though.

quote: and no ones forcing people to vote along party lines in any way.

how can they neway. hack ur computer if u don't they don't even know who ur've voted for.

(i made chieftain)(yay for me)

	13-07-2002 09:32									#14
	Remove this text

this reminds me of the Planet Neutral from an episode of Futurama (dont ask me why).. and a great quote just before the planet is going to explode....

"Tell my wife I said... hello"

	13-07-2002 10:14									#15
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I then propose the Independent Extremists Party. We are way off either way, and absolutely hate the guys in the middle. Liberty or death, Slavery or death, either way, join the party! [/sarcasm]

	13-07-2002 13:11									#16
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skywalker, I appreciate what you are trying to do and have been similarly annoyed with the partisan nature of posts by many in our Democracy. However I do not believe this attempt will work (as evidenced by the above, HIGHLY sceptical posts ).

Many here believe that the party endorsements of certain candidates does not mean any member will necessarily vote for them - I may disagree vehemently with this but until we have a disaster in Government there is little evidence to support this line of reasoning.

I commend your intention, but advise you don't try such methods that would allow some further ammunition against you to bring up in public debates here. It seems that some have a low opinion of you, and perhaps you can convince them otherwise by continuing to post sensibly and intelligently. This thread has certainly raised my opinion of you - many have complained of the party tactics, but no-one that I have seen has been arsed to do anything about it, but you.

	13-07-2002 13:35									#17
	Tired of ads?

I would advise that you remain independent. If you form a party that goes around saying, "Look at us, we're independent!", that's not independence.

In the real world, plenty of people are not registered to any one party (including me and my family). It seems oxymoronic to have a party for people who are not members of any party.

	13-07-2002 16:20									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot this reminds me of the Planet Neutral from an episode of Futurama (dont ask me why).. and a great quote just before the planet is going to explode.... "Tell my wife I said... hello"

Yeah, that was a good episode

	13-07-2002 16:56									#19
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Mr President -

We aren't proclaiming anything. This party doesn't do that. We don't do things in the name of the party, we do them independently. The whole point of this party is to give people a way to be independent without leaving the security of the party system, and to draw the real moderates out of the extremist DIA and UFC.

	14-07-2002 00:25									#20
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who does being independednt give them "a way to be independent without leaving the security of the party system", if you're not voting as a party in the system. it makes no sense.

it's like ure trying to make IND a party, it serves no purpose.

	14-07-2002 04:16									#21
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It does serve a purpose. To many people feel that they need to join a party. This is a compromise between being in a party and acting independent. If you have a suggestion on how this idea could be improved, please tell us. If not, please stop with the unconstructive criticism.

	14-07-2002 19:47									#22
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*bump*

	14-07-2002 19:55									#23
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I'm imagining what a "compromise between acting independent and being in a prty" is. The IND leader decides that all independant should vote DIA in the city planner election. And all INDs vote blindly to follow party discipline

	14-07-2002 20:07									#24
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No, we DON'T VOTE AS A BLOC!!!!!!!!!!!! READ THE FIRST POST!!!!!

God, I HATE it when people do this.

	14-07-2002 20:31									#25
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ok, i got this question then

If I am an independant, and i dont really feel i want a party, is there any reason for me to join this party?

	14-07-2002 20:44									#26
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No, but if you're in the DIA or UFC, and you want to be more independent and less extremist, then you should join. People who are independent already don't need this party.

	14-07-2002 20:46									#27
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so this is a defection party for people who are from parties already?

but what I am asking is like, what if i am DIA and dont want to be in ANY parties? then why would this party appeal to any non-party independants.

	14-07-2002 20:48									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

If you don't want to be in any parties, then you wouldn't be in the DIA. Right now, most people want to be in a party, but they might not like partisan politics or the extremism of the two major parties. This broadens their choices and is as close as we will probably ever get to eliminating parties altogether.

	14-07-2002 20:49									#29
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LOL, leave it to skywalker to form a "defection" party

	14-07-2002 20:50									#30
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Timeline -

That's another example of partisan politics. You are taking words that someone else said about me and making it look like I said them.