14-07-2002 07:05									#1
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are any of you multiplayer greats going to participate in the multiplayer democracy game? we're going to be squaring off against gamecatcher and Civ Fanatics. You could probably help us out a lot, seeing as how many of us have never played a multiplayer game before. You wouldn't want to be part of a site that was bested by another civ site would you?

	14-07-2002 08:29									#2
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no we wouldn't

	14-07-2002 08:34									#3
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever no we wouldn't

CARE

	15-07-2002 17:24									#4
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Somehow I can't imagine a MP democracy game. Chariot finds enemy settler......what, you have to discuss for 10 minutes whether to kill it or not.
MP games are about fast decisions and going with the flow, not argueing over philosophies.

RAH

	15-07-2002 19:00									#5
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Yeah well, there seems to be a lot of Diplo Game fans.


And what the hell is that avatar, RAH ?
It looks like a duck hunting stamp.

	15-07-2002 19:12									#6
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i think it's suppose to an amulet sloww.. the amulet of Rah

	15-07-2002 19:16									#7
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Yes, it's the head piece for the "staff of RA"
Used in Raiders of the lost ark but with a crystal in the middle for the locate the ark scene.

	20-07-2002 04:47									#8
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what exactly is the staff of Ra...some sort of religious monument i assume?

	20-07-2002 07:02									#9
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Never saw raiders of the lost ark?

	22-07-2002 19:10									#10
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quote: Somehow I can't imagine a MP democracy game. Chariot finds enemy settler......what, you have to discuss for 10 minutes whether to kill it or not. MP games are about fast decisions and going with the flow, not argueing over philosophies.

Dialogue and imagination require a bit more effort than "kill everything you see".....I can see why some people would have trouble with it rah

The idea is to make the game, more than "just another game".

	22-07-2002 19:47									#11
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quote: Originally posted by drake The idea is to make the game, more than "just another game".

Yes, there seems to be a lot of that lately, and it's rarely successful. Reading up about the "SPECIAL" diplo games makes you realize just how special they're NOT.

Actually all I ever need is "just another game".

Give me some competitive friends that I know will kick my a** if i make a mistake or get a few bad breaks, and ones that I know won't cheat, and I'm a Happy Happy Camper.

RAH
Sometimes it's the simplest things that are the best.
Cherish every game.

	22-07-2002 20:04									#12
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Recent dip games have been miserable failures, I agree......it takes a special cast to make them work like they should, and its difficult to assemble such a cast.

You need, dedicated -reliable- people, and they are few and far between quite candidly.

I am not knocking your games rah, I am all for doing what you enjoy, but your mocking tone warranted some sort of response

	22-07-2002 20:16									#13
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Actually I didn't intend for it to sound mocking at all. I just wanted to state my 2 cents on the value of the everyday game, and that I consider almost any game special.

You're right, it's the players, not the game that makes it all work.

Rich

	22-07-2002 23:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by rah Actually I didn't intend for it to sound mocking at all. Rich

Reminds me of my daughter when I tell her not to take that sarcastic tone with me.


It won't be 2x1x anyway, Rich.

Haven't really checked it out yet (just got back), but my guess is that H Tower is Very Correct that a member or 2 from the 'poly MP group would be a huge boost.;

	22-07-2002 23:15									#15
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I really didn't care what the settings were going to be since I never had any intention of playing in it. It sounds like a stupid concept and I'm sure it's implementation will be equally stupid.

RAH
For the record, that WAS sarcastic, just so you know the difference in the future.

	23-07-2002 00:41									#16
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Rich, I was saying I was amused, nothing more. But now I'm...

Drake calls you out for a mocking tone, you deny it, saying "I didn't mean for it to sound mocking..."

I say it sounds like my daughter being sarcastic, and you deny it by saying "that WAS sarcastic" ???

Hmmm, uhh, OK, yeah. Got it...

* -Jrabbit walks away, muttering. "...guess I was gone longer than I thought..." *

	23-07-2002 00:58									#17
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My reply at 13:15 was the mocking/sarcastic comment.

I still contend that my 9:47 post was not intended to sound mocking as Drake thought. Unlike the one from 7:24 on the 15th.

Does it make sense now? Or are pictures required?

	23-07-2002 02:47									#18
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Pictures Please (he says sarcastically, but not mockingly)

	23-07-2002 03:34									#19
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Dipping into 'poly to relieve the unrelenting boredom of slogging through 411 pending emails at work -- Guess I wasn't paying very close attention. Just thought the reference to a 14-yr old rolling her eyes heavenward might ring true in your world, RAH.

Can't wait for high school to start.

	23-07-2002 15:32									#20
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Rah, you didn't let the kid explain, when he says "Diplo", he means several players playing as one tribe vs several players playing as another, and a third team as well, not a diplomatic discourse between the opponets.

Your example would go "our chariot has met Rah's settler, opinions?
Kill it.
It's dead".

You shouldn't jump to conclusions, different people have different ideas as to what "Diplo" means.

	23-07-2002 17:15									#21
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DD,

Jack, High school , arrrrrggggggg

Chris, I think I got it right. If you have to ask for opinions on the smallest things, you might as well just hand me the gun to shoot myself now.

RAH

	23-07-2002 19:36									#22
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You can't shoot yourself until the majority votes that its ok rah...this is a diplo thread!

	23-07-2002 19:49									#23
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ROTFLMAO @ Drake.

Very good.



RAH

	24-07-2002 02:19									#24
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How does this even work in MP. I thought in a democracy game people voted on what to do after each turn by viewing the saves. MP is a realtime game. How do the non-players view the game and vote?

	24-07-2002 02:31									#25
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Yes, having an AI senate is bad enough, I can't imagine a real human senate telling me what to do.

"NO NO NO, You can't start a war with them"

"SCREW YOU, it's a f****** wargame we're playing here"



RAH

	24-07-2002 05:19									#26
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wow, last time i checked there were 2 responses. now there are 15 responses by rah bashing the idea


and it wouldn't be as bad as you think either. besides, it would just add to the challenge of the game. can you force others to see your point of view and support your plan?

	24-07-2002 05:27									#27
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The problem is that MP games take long enough as it is...

Adding the element of somebody telling the guy moving the pieces what to do, will just add too much time to it.

It is a GREAT idea though... I would suggest you do it by PBEM though...

	24-07-2002 05:39									#28
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I still dont understand how it works mechanically - how do all the citizens view the game - its a realtime MP game - not a saved file

	24-07-2002 17:31									#29
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower and it wouldn't be as bad as you think either. besides, it would just add to the challenge of the game. can you force others to see your point of view and support your plan?

Yes, that sums up why the idea is suspect. Any point of view that has to be debated is probably the wrong one.
But the main reason it seems silly is exactly what FF said. The games moves slow enough as it is, I can only see this type of thing making it take 10 times as long. Bah. Let's say you're attacking a city with 10 crusaders. You have bad luck on the first few attacks and have done miminmal damage. The last thing I would want at that point would be to have to pause while people debate whether we should risk the assets to continue the attack. (granted this may be an exageration) But anything that woudl be close to this would suck all the fun out of it. and take way way too long.

This is my personal opinion only and would preclude me from participating. I know there are a few people that have no problem with how long it takes or debating philosophies during the game. For them, this would probably be fun. Different strokes for different folks. And that's why CIVII MP is still alive. There are many many different ways to play it.

RAH

	24-07-2002 18:21									#30
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Just one silly question... If everybody is making decisions by viewing the same saved game file... isn't it really easy to just open the full map and take a look at what the opponents are doing