15-07-2002 08:18									#1
	WAR ACADEMY: City of Iron? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ok, I am not technically in the academy yet, but here goes.

PART I: THE IRON AGE
We need iron eventually, and there are two ways we can get it:
We can trade for it. Or we can acquire it for ourselves.
There are two ways to do the second option: We can expand to the Iron-bearing area or we can conquer the area.

If we do the first of those, we can either build a colony or a city.

This is open for discussion, that being the purpose of the WA...

Anyway, I feel we must consider this now. Our war with America is not far away and soon Archers will not be very useful against later opponents.

So we need iron. Trading is expensive and trading partners can be fickle. So I propose we acquire our own iron. Conquest is risky, so it is better to get our own through normal expansion.

Colonies vs. Cities
Colonies can be absorbed easily and serve limited purpose.
Cities can be absorbed only with some effort (Not THAT much with our low culture) and have great potential.

Free Iron sources:
1. In the Great Rift, France, etc.
2. In the Monkey Mountains , between our own glorious nation (OOGN) and that of the filthy Persians.
3. Elsewhere unknown

1 is too far away, 3 is based on chance.
2 is our best bet... it is about midway between OOGN and Persia. The land is bad, but so is this whole jungle. Anyway, after our war with America, we will have lots of productive land...we should be able to spare some shields for the long-term investment the city requires.

IMNSHO, the city should be built directly south of the Iron, on the coast... gives sea access, Iron is within initial radius.

END OF PART I
PART II: Build a better Iron-mine

We bring the garrison with us, as soon as the city is built we start on a temple. We need the culture if the city is to survive the cultural might of majestic Persia.
Hopefully, we can divert some workers and slaves to the city...some to build a road to the city, some to clear the jungle and mine +road the iron itself.

So those are the basics for my proposed city.

Oh, and in case I didn't make it clear, this is for AFTER Plan Eagle... whether we win or lose.

Alright, I am waiting for you all to shoot it down. Have fun! Or you might even APPROVE of it!

	15-07-2002 08:23									#2
	Re: WAR ACADEMY: City of Iron? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by The Dark Lord IMNSHO, the city should be built directly south of the Iron, on the coast... gives sea access, Iron is within initial radius.

Heh, that's what I said.

I agree with what you're saying here. If we do make a run for the iron to the east, we should probably do so before Persia expands too much. I don't think we have to worry about that for a while yet, so long as we can get the iron there prior to our second war.

Maybe we should send 1-2 workers to build a road to that site first to prepare?

ADDITION: Also, we'd be able to grab those dyes a lot easier. We'd just have to protect the city from the Persians.

	15-07-2002 08:56									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Has the Persians declared war already?

	15-07-2002 09:01									#4
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Nope, but we probably shouldn't risk war with them anytime in the near future. Plus, it's always best to be cautious no matter WHAT civ we're dealing with.

	15-07-2002 09:24									#5
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I'd go with #2, it being the best bet and all

	15-07-2002 11:46									#6
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We should build a city for the iron, but it would have to be done during the war with America I think or we risk Persia taking it.

	15-07-2002 12:26									#7
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We need a city close to an iron source, and the iron shall be not farther than 1 tile away. But what we also need, is to connect the iron and to connect the iron city with the rest. That's pretty hard with the iron in the "monkey mountains", because there's a lot of jungle to road to get there. A road to America will be built soon. If America indeed has no iron, which we know after we uncovered the black spots, I'd say we go for the iron source in the jungle and build a road from the (connected) America there. And if America has iron, we might consider to secure the iron source anyway, but then the time doesn't press so much.

Disclaimer: I have no access to the map right now and can't check and count tiles, but as far as I remember, the iron in the jungle was pretty far away.

	15-07-2002 12:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

That French iron looks very attractive.

Need horsemen though.

	15-07-2002 12:43									#9
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither That French iron looks very attractive.

Indeed, but we need to discover more of the map for this decision. Right now I have no clue where to settle there (may be to the south at the coast[?], may be not...). And we need to connect it with the rest of our Empire. I hope we can get a majority for a war with France after America, or else we'll have trouble to build a road there. No hope to connect it with a harbor, because it needs 80 shields (we're non-militaristic).

	15-07-2002 15:07									#10
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Monkey Mountain iron is roughly 12 tiles from Banana HQ -- all through jungle, with a mountain to circle around or road through. That is a long haul, though as has been pointed out, it also strengthens a potential claim on the jungle dyes to the north.
OTOH, nearby civs are going to make a bid for those dyes (the AI always goes for luxuries, and often goes to war over them), so if we want to push in this direction, my impression is it's going to take a major push. We'd have to establish a presence, build a major road, and deal with unfavorable landscape (deep jungle, interuppted only by mountains, hills, and coast). Expasion in that direction is going to come under pressure (either cultural or military, probably both, sooner or later).

Because we'd have to make a major push, and because that push would not pressure any rival civ's heartland, I favor a push to the west, towards France. There, we would be gaining access to iron and another luxury (wines), and clipping the wings of a rival civ at the same time -- for what seems to me like a commensurate level of effort (a pruning war, vs. building and roading and building up a sustainable presence in the jungle).

But we do have to await future developments. We need to see more map, true, and we want to see how the war against the Americans goes. (If we take a beating, we will not want to take on France soon, i'm guessing.)

	15-07-2002 15:16									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Making a colony to aquire Iron should not be an option. Colonies are simply much to vulnerable, we will need a presence to protect the Iron resource. This would be best done by building a city, even if it is not connected to the major cities. Why would building a harbor, and connecting them through the sea lanes not be a viable option. Of course before we make a dash for the Iron next to the Persiens, we should wait and see whether we will get some through our campaign against the Americans, or the French if it comes down to that.

	15-07-2002 17:53									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Papa Chubby Why would building a harbor, and connecting them through the sea lanes not be a viable option. Of course before we make a dash for the Iron next to the Persiens, we should wait and see whether we will get some through our campaign against the Americans, or the French if it comes down to that.

A harbor costs 80 shields (non-militaristic). That's 80 turns for a crappy 1-shield-jungle city. Ways too many to rely on. Better to check other options first, like iron close to the Americans, or the French iron.

	15-07-2002 22:55									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We do want the dyes though. I don't see how one settler could disrupt our (potential) conquest of France.