15-07-2002 13:29									#1
	Best Early Wonder? - Great Library vs. Pyramids Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Which of the two early wonders do you strive for hardest?

While both have their own advantages, I usually favor the Pyramids. The ongoing population boost can really help your science and production, and get you on a path that will inevitably lead to victory.
The Great Library is useful as well, certainly it will keep you in the tech race into the Middle Ages, regardless of anything else. Plus you can't beat that Culture bonus.

What does the ever-wise Civ 3 strategy forum think on this question?

	15-07-2002 17:42									#2
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Thats a tough question considering they are proberly the most important early wonders. I would have to go with the Pyramids though- the science, culture, and population boost do pay off considerbly. Cranking out the science with the Pyramids is just as good as the Great Library's dual technology bonus. Additionally time that woulda been spent building graneries can be used for settler production (which can be achieved more often due to population boost) expanding your military intrest, and concintrating on other construction projects. That wonder has saved my arse many a game and brought prosperity to my developing empire. I would take the Pyramids any day.

	15-07-2002 21:30									#3
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If I'm going a "builder" route, definitely the Great Library. The ability to shut off science and use the cash to rush city builds is key, and can give you a nifty head start in the middle ages. You can also use that money to upgrade a large force of horsies to knights (or equivalent) and drop the hammer on your neighbors... oh, wait, I was discussing "builder" tactics... right. Oops.

If I'm going a "warmonger" route, I'd like both via leaders. Basically, if I get a leader while the Pyramids are still available and I don't need it for my Forbidden, I'll rush the Pyramids. I like to then either build or rush the GL, simply to keep it out of the AI's hands.

-Arrian

	15-07-2002 23:06									#4
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Sometimes the Great Library is simply a must-have, especially is you are stuck on an island/small continent and can't meet all the other Civs to lower your research costs.
I find it becomes obsolete too early, but if you don't get it then you can be too far behind to ever catch up.

I like to play a rapid expansion warmonger style these days so I'll take the Pyramids as my pick. The extra food = more settlers = more cities = more units.
I can get all the tech I want from oscillating wars, if things go well I will have get a tech lead by the time Great Library becomes obsolete anyway and get in roughly the same position.

It all depends on play-style I suppose.

As Arrian says, if you can get a Great Leader (or two ) then build one and rush the other!

	15-07-2002 23:14									#5
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I think it's dependent on the game, and various conditions.

For instance, unless my cities are primarily on rivers, I don;t think that the Pyramids are all that great, as cities grow to the 6-pop limit relatively easily anyway.

And while there have certainly been instances when the Great Library saved my butt, tech is usually not too much of a problem. Maybe to block the AI civs from having it...

If I get an early GL, I'd probably rather build an Army or the Colossus.

	15-07-2002 23:15									#6
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My post here got lot somehow. Generally, GL is the best, for it lets you put science to 0, nad get mad profit, buy all you need, have good culture. On Regent and above you anyway need to be a tech buyer for most of the game, so it's much better to start buying later, having generated a lot of money to date.

	16-07-2002 00:04									#7
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I'ld go for the GL since it opens a lot of doors for you.(i.e. lower sience for unit support). In my current game I manage to build both and beat Rome by 2 turns on the pyramids. Lucky me! The AI doesn't seem to care for the GL as only me and the Japan tried to build it even though I got the Literature much later than the rest. Is this true?

Since were talking GW, Does the Wonder continue to produce culture even if it's already oblsolete?

	16-07-2002 00:16									#8
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W4r_Machine: Yes, I believe it does continue to produce culture.

	16-07-2002 00:21									#9
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The AI is much more gung-ho for the Pyramids than for the Great Library. But if you beat them to the Pyramids and they have literature... they will just switch. What's great is when the Pyramids are built before literature makes the rounds. Then you can (on Monarch, at least) pretty much build the GL at your leisure.

Wonders continue to generate culture whether they are still "working" or not. Like all culture-producing things, their culture output doubles after 1000yrs. Captured Wonders, however, provide no culture.

-Arrian

	16-07-2002 00:37									#10
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Thanks Arrian and FP, Indeed, the civs I beat to the pyramids switch to the Oracle(much to my dismay) and The great lighthouse. At this point I was behind by three techs to the indians which has a massive empire on my continent(obo. 17 cities) compare to my 6 cities.

	16-07-2002 04:48									#11
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Honestly, I don't build either. The techs come from war, the expansion comes from conquests. Pyramids are a great thing to capture, of course.

Rarely will I dedicate a city to building a wonder early on, with the obvious exception of the Colossus, since I generally make a coastal city explicitly to get it (and since the AI rarely, if ever, bothers with it), or to get the Lighthouse if necessary.

If I had to have one I'd take the Pyramids. You wouldn't catch me dead building the GL.

	16-07-2002 05:12									#12
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I would make the GL on a higher difficulty to get a ton of techs. The Pyramids aren't really needed that bad.