16-07-2002 03:20									#1
	Should the Abandon City Exploit be fixed in PTW? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

You never need to raze and don't get any diplomatic penalties. I know you don't get workers but it is a small price to pay. Does this need to be fixed? Some might argue its not an exploit but kinda seems that way to me. Any opinions on this?

	16-07-2002 03:33									#2
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i dont think the abandon city is too much of an exploit, but i think it would be kind of silly in MP. i hope you can only abandon while you are moving.

	16-07-2002 03:41									#3
	Re: Should the Abandon City Exploit be fixed in PTW? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Artifex You never need to raze and don't get any diplomatic penalties. I know you don't get workers but it is a small price to pay. Does this need to be fixed? Some might argue its not an exploit but kinda seems that way to me. Any opinions on this?

Why would you suffer diplomatic penalties for abandoning a city? Take a look at the West or up in the Klondike area in Canada/Alaska. There's numerous "ghost towns" that were simply left to rot when they were no longer considered economical. They were important at one point, but the circumstances changed and everyone just left. That's been a very common occurrence throughout history, and is still continuing today in various locales, though perhaps not as drastically as before.

	16-07-2002 03:59									#4
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Willem, I think he is referring to when you capture an enemy city and then abandon it. Normally, if you capture a city and raze it, the other civs will get mad and you will suffer a reputation hit. It's seen as a bit of a war crime to totally destroy a captured city. But the Abandon City option makes the Raze City option pretty meaningless, as one can just choose to leave the city. Then the question arises--what did you do with the city's former inhabitants?

	16-07-2002 05:30									#5
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Ah, but the unhappiness from drafting/pop rushing (under the AI) will transfer to your cities if you abandon it. Razing causes no such transfer.

	16-07-2002 10:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Carver Ah, but the unhappiness from drafting/pop rushing (under the AI) will transfer to your cities if you abandon it. Razing causes no such transfer.

I thought it would transfer to that city only, not to the others... and if abandoned, the problem would be gone... am I missing something??? Are you sure it works like this?

	16-07-2002 11:37									#7
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Gah! So thats why I got a city complaining about cruel opression... when I swore I had never whipped them.

	16-07-2002 14:37									#8
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Nah well... you can conquer an enemy city, sell down the most expensive improvement, abandon. Or you can just raze it, and get workers. However, razing doesn't give much of a diplomatic penalty, so I fail to see an exploit.

	16-07-2002 18:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack I thought it would transfer to that city only, not to the others... and if abandoned, the problem would be gone... am I missing something??? Are you sure it works like this?

If you create a Settler from any city that has been "abused" in any way, the unhappiness carries with that unit into the new city it builds. This has been confirmed by Firaxis.

	16-07-2002 18:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Willem If you create a Settler from any city that has been "abused" in any way, the unhappiness carries with that unit into the new city it builds. This has been confirmed by Firaxis.

That explains why my citizens are unhappy most of the time. In my current game, food is so plentiful that I use the whip liberally (ironic term, eh) even to create new settlers.

	16-07-2002 18:44									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Willem If you create a Settler from any city that has been "abused" in any way, the unhappiness carries with that unit into the new city it builds. This has been confirmed by Firaxis.

I thought Carver meant that all of my cities (he used cities instead of a city, which puzzled me) would suffer some sort of a happiness penalty, if I abandon one. Now it's clear - I know that the unhappiness carries over, even through settlers/workers (BTW... how's that, if I produce a worker out of an unhappy city, let him work - like a slave - for 20 turns and then let him join another city of mine? Do 20 years of forced labour make them forget the cruel things I/someone did to them...? )