23-07-2002 20:21									#31
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Partial results July 23 - 13:18 GMT -3 hours

Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

Spanish .................................................................. 5 votes
Belgians, Dutch, Celts, Turks, Poles & Vikings ................ 1 vote
One not listed here ................................................... 4 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after Spiffors vote -)

1. Spanish ......................................... 10 votes
2. Dutch ........................................... 6 votes
3. Vikings .......................................... 5 votes (one as the Norse)
4. Portuguese .................................... 4 votes
5. Turks ............................................. 3 votes (one as the Ottomans)
6. Celts ............................................ 2 votes
7. Austro-hungarians .............................. 1 vote
- Minoans ........................................... 1 vote
- Iberians ........................................... 1 vote

Thanks
Yellfromhell

	24-07-2002 03:30									#32
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You think we really need 3 more Europeans civs?

Well anyhow...
1. Turks
2. Vikings
3. Spain

	26-07-2002 16:40									#33
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Partial results July 27 - 09:32 GMT -3 hours

Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

1. Spanish .................................................................. 6 votes
2. Dutch ..................................................................... 3 votes
3. Turks ...................................................................... 2 votes
-. Poles ....................................................................... 2 votes
4. Belgian .................................................................... 1 vote
-. Celts ....................................................................... 1 vote
-. Vikings ..................................................................... 1 vote

One not listed here ................................................... 4 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after JoshHams vote -)

1. Spanish .......................................... 11 votes
2. Dutch ............................................ 6 votes
- Vikings ............................................ 6 votes (one as the Norse)
4. Portuguese ..................................... 4 votes
- Turks .............................................. 4 votes (one as the Ottomans)
6. Celts ............................................. 2 votes
7. Austro-hungarians ............................ 1 vote
- Minoans ........................................... 1 vote
- Iberians ........................................... 1 vote

Thanks
Yellfromhell

Last edited by yellfromhell on 26-07-2002 at 16:47

	26-07-2002 16:56									#34
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Celts
Spanish
Ottoman

	26-07-2002 16:59									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

BTW where's that old good Civ IV wish list now?

	27-07-2002 03:44									#36
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1. Since Spaniards and Ottomans will be in civ3 soon, in PTW, i would say for civ4:

1.Poles
2.Dutch
3. Italians (not the Romans, but folk like Venetians, Florentines, so forth who are not represented in the game)

Also, Huns =/ Magyar (Hungarians), and the Austro-Hungarian empire was a political units that existed only from 1867-1919. Before that it was either the Asutrian Empire (Germans ruling over Magyars), or just the eastern end of the Holy Roman Empire. Since the Austrians are already in, as part of the Germans, the choice should be Magyar besides the Huns, which are a different group.

	27-07-2002 19:19									#37
	Inflate your Upload Space

Partial results July 27 - 12:12 GMT -3 hours

Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

1. Spanish .................................................................. 8 votes
2. Dutch ..................................................................... 3 votes
-. Poles ...................................................................... 3 votes
4. Turks ....................................................................... 2 votes
-. Celts ....................................................................... 2 votes
6. Belgian .................................................................... 1 vote
-. Vikings ..................................................................... 1 vote

One not listed here ................................................... 4 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after GePapa vote, if I figure how to understand it -)

1. Spanish .......................................... 12 votes
2. Dutch ............................................ 7 votes
- Vikings ............................................ 6 votes (one as the Norse)
4. Turks .............................................. 5 votes (two as the Ottomans)
5. Portuguese ..................................... 4 votes
6. Celts ............................................. 3 votes
7. Austro-hungarians ............................ 1 vote
- Minoans ........................................... 1 vote
- Iberians ........................................... 1 vote
- Poles .............................................. 1 vote
- Italians ............................................ 1 vote

Thanks
Yellfromhell

	30-07-2002 21:48									#38
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End of both polls:

1) Final Results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

1. Spanish .................................................................. 8 votes
2. Dutch ..................................................................... 3 votes
-. Poles ...................................................................... 3 votes
-. Turks ....................................................................... 3 votes
4. Celts ....................................................................... 2 votes
-. Vikings ..................................................................... 2 vote
6. Belgians .................................................................... 1 vote

2) Final results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?)

1. Spanish .......................................... 12 votes
2. Dutch ............................................ 7 votes
- Vikings ............................................ 6 votes
4. Turks .............................................. 5 votes
5. Portuguese ..................................... 4 votes
6. Celts ............................................. 3 votes
7. Austro-hungarians ............................ 1 vote
- Minoans ........................................... 1 vote
- Iberians ........................................... 1 vote
- Poles .............................................. 1 vote
- Italians ............................................ 1 vote

As I understand this results, the first poll has a bigger risk of promoting 'nationalist voting' (because it gives you just one chance). The 2nd poll has a lower risk of having that kind of votes because you can vote for 3 civs. Anyway, this wasnt scientific, so every motivation for voting counts.

Im sorry for the Poles and Vikings but, looking at the results, my point of view is that the Spanish, the Dutch and the Turks should be in civ4.

	30-07-2002 22:42									#39
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What's this? No Hugs or Thanks?

I think I'm going to cry.

(Have to settle with scared, Apoly doesn't appear to have a cry smilie.)

	31-07-2002 04:48									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sorry Ghengis,
Hugs
Yell

	06-08-2002 03:40									#41
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I vote for the Vikings, Spanish and Turks (last one hard choice).

	10-09-2002 13:02									#42
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar 8. Serbs (although I don't really like them, esp. the one named "Serb", LOL)

Hey, what's your problem with Serbs? Is it because of me? You know that I'm not Serbian, but Russian. And why you don't like me?

	10-09-2002 15:04									#44
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What?

	12-09-2002 23:52									#45
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Celts, Bavarians and Basques (for sheer endurance)

	13-09-2002 03:23									#46
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Switzerland! Switzerland! Switzerland! I'd like to see Spain (it's coming in PTW, good), England, Germany, France...Italy?...

	09-10-2002 01:59									#47
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all civ should be in, more is always merrier. why limit yourself to 3 euro civ? wouldnt that be like affirmative action agst euro civs in civ 4?

	09-10-2002 02:01									#48
	Put an end to popups!

Heck even throw in Russia AND soviet union... since they should be more than considered as different civ.

of course i speak unrealistically cause firaxis is not gonna throw in 200+ civs in a single game, but you understand my point that they all deserve to be in... or will they throw 200+?..... (mysterious grin)

	05-11-2002 10:30									#49
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I would have to say:

Spain
Turks
Vikings

Spain is definitely missing out, having been a major power for a period during the medieval era and still remaining a player in world politics today.

The Turks ruled a massive region during the Ottoman Empire, lasting several centuries up until World War I.

The Vikings tend to be the lesser-known of historical powers because they were somewhat isolated from the major battlefields of Europe and the Middle-East. However, they accomplished much more than is well-known, including being the first-known European culture to land on the Americas.

----------------------------

Among some other choices, I'd also include:

Poles
Dutch
Portugese
Basques

----------------------------

I skimmed through the posts after the first few and somewhere along noticed someone mention an Italian civ?

While, of course, the more Italian the better we already have the Romans and that is enough for the game. The current state of unified Italy is only slightly over 100 years old.

Many Italians consider themselves half-Italian. The other half is from Padania, Etruscan, or of any of the other several ethnic groups of Italy. The Roman Empire is something most Italians will willingly accept that they have in common.

	09-11-2002 23:38									#50
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quote: I skimmed through the posts after the first few and somewhere along noticed someone mention an Italian civ? While, of course, the more Italian the better we already have the Romans and that is enough for the game. The current state of unified Italy is only slightly over 100 years old. Many Italians consider themselves half-Italian. The other half is from Padania, Etruscan, or of any of the other several ethnic groups of Italy. The Roman Empire is something most Italians will willingly accept that they have in common.

Maybe we should include all the minor Italian states then:

Milanese, Venetians, Florentines, Savoy/Kingdom of Sardinia, Papal State, Kingdom of Both Sicilies and so on...

j/k

But I personally think the more civs, the better.

I would love to play in a very huge map with some 1000+ civs in it

Saluti

	12-11-2002 13:04									#51
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Now if we could have a 10000x10000 map with about three or four thousand civs, that ought to cover the majority of the world! Would definitely make for an interesting game if all several thousand civs played at once...

Maybe there will be some massive breakthrough in computer science so we can have that much stuff for Civ4!

Then again that may be rather unlikely, so at least include Milan Or maybe a whole Civ game JUST for the Italian states! I know: Every nation gets their own Civ game. Maybe toss in some mythology... let's see we can have Romulus and Remus; the story of Aeneas. Greece can have Illiad and the Odyssey and China the Three Kingdoms. England: Lord of the Rings!

Back a little more on topic... I fully agree: the more Civs the better. I don't mind the wait in between turns, since it lets me think of my strategy as I watch nearby enemy units move about. The only thing I can't stand watching are all my workers move about!

	12-11-2002 21:46									#52
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I like the vatican and his swiss army...

	15-11-2002 19:43									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Serb What?

	17-11-2002 23:45									#54
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What?

	18-11-2002 02:44									#55
	Top 3 Missing Euro Civs Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Alright I just bought PTW yesterday. Turns out all my choices for three new Civs are pretty much represented!

Although personally I think having Turks would have been a little better than the Ottomans. Ottomans were only around a couple centuries; Turks were around before then and are still around today.

So I guess now my top 3 are:

Dutch
Portugese
Basques

And coming in a close fourth would be the Poles.

Then again Europe is already represented pretty well. Personally, I think the game could use more American and Australian civs. Aboriginees, Incans, and Mayans should all be included. In kind of bothers me when I'm playing a realistic Earth map, only to have the Iroquis and Zulu become the most powerful nations because Europe and southeastern Asia are all battling for land. Then again, I suppose that just lends a viewpoint on what could have come to be should the Iroquis and Zulu been more expansionistic and technology-oriented...

	26-11-2002 18:41									#56
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Let us stop being so Euro-centric! Come with me, and let us look a a atlas! Can you see that there are OTHER continants on our rather pathetic planet? I would like to see though

Incas (Just to fill up south America)
Benin/Nigeria (Big hole in west Africa)
Polenesians (so we can get them sailing around the world, settiling on remote Pascific islands)
Ethopians (they were the pride of Africa)

I rather like these ideas now, and I will now start making a customised world for them!
(If anybody knows about UU's leader names, etc. please tell me.

Cheers

	26-11-2002 18:58									#57
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok. Imagine I am playing Marla World Map, and I am being a medioce England. By 2000AD, we allways end up as

1) China
2) Egypt
3) India
4) Zulu
5) Aztecs
6) America
7) Russia
8) Persia
9) Germans
10) Greeks
11) France
12) Japan
13) England

Finished
14) Iroquis (1000 AD)
15) Babalonians (350 AD)
16) Rome (20 AD)

As you see, Europe allways lagges behind, due to the lack of wars in Europe ( I allways seem to see German, Greek and French cities sitting in Siberia, while Russia is being stunted because she sometimes gets blocked entirely form expancion eastword) Is there a way to tell European Nations to

a) Fight lots of wars to gain cities
b) Attempt to build up land masses of each civ, instead of them being all mixed up?

I made them more agressive and Militristic, which helped, but it could be better!

	26-11-2002 19:25									#58
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At what difficulty are you playing? I thought that helps as well.

	27-11-2002 19:26									#59
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King.

I was on Marla's World map (If you aint got it, download from www.civfanatics.com). I have played over 100 games, at all levels, and have seen that England never seem to be able to gain any cities on mainland Europe (unless I was England) and she usally occupies just Britain, Ireland, Scottish islands and Iceland. In my experiance, there is not much suprise in this map, (unless you create it) but it is such a cool map!

	27-11-2002 19:37									#60
	Your Wrong! Get a bigger avatar today!

Although personally I think having Turks would have been a little better than the Ottomans. Ottomans were only around a couple centuries; Turks were around before then and are still around today.

Just saw that ^

Wrong.

Let us run through some History

2002-1920 Turkey
1920-1452 Ottoman Empire
1452-610 Bazintine Empire
610 - 100 BC Roman Empire
100 - 336 Various Greek States
336 - 550 Persian Empire
550 BC --> Varoius

And Turkey has only been called Turkey since about 1850. Before (and sometimes still now, she is called Anitola (fear spelling is incorrect)

Bye.

Last edited by Silpy on 27-11-2002 at 19:44