16-07-2002 05:16									#1
	¿Which 3 european civs deserve to be present in Civ4? Inflate your Upload Space

Hi,
It must be the 11th time you see a poll like this one, but I certainly dont care much about it.
I post this thread because my south-american condition always take me to argue about the Aztecs, and I want to expand my topics of discussion. I also need to probe myself that I can be a real cosmopolitan citizen :=)
Well, I wont make it serious so you`ll find some exotic options in the poll (not enough exotic to make it ridicoulous but...).
The question is: supposing Firaxis opens 3 new places for european civs ¿which ones should they be?
Hugs
Yell

	16-07-2002 05:45									#2
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I made an error: I didnt allow multiple vote in the poll.
So, it seems all the thread has been spoiled. I know I look a lot more stupid now, but I`ll try to count your votes in your replies and post daily the results.

	16-07-2002 05:53									#3
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Because an idiot didnt allow multiple vote, I had to vote only for Spain. If only I could find that stupid I would...
Well, my vote is for Spain, Holland and Portugal. Those 3 are the most relevant out-siders of Civ3. They together conquered nearly 1/4 of the worlds land surface. I believe this poll has no sense... its too simple.
Yell

	16-07-2002 23:14									#4
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I'd vote for the Celts, the Dutch, and the Spain
I think the Celts are the basis of Europe and they changed the world by establishing culture in Europe and enabling Europe to take the next steps to dominating the world in the 19th century.
I think the Portuguese did not change the world in any other way than Spain but Spain also strongly affected inner-European politics in contrast to Portugal, so I think Portugal is not among the Top3.

	17-07-2002 01:16									#5
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1. Spanish
2. Vikings
3. Portuguese

then...

4. Dutch
5. Celts
6. Poles
7. Huns
8. Serbs (although I don't really like them, esp. the one named "Serb", LOL)

I don't consider the Turks really "European", but if I had to I'd put them at #3 or #4 at least.

	17-07-2002 01:39									#6
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Spanish, Viking and Dutch.

	17-07-2002 01:54									#7
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I`ll make two simultaneous poll: 1) the one you see at the top of the page (remember I commited the stupidity of not allowing multiple vote, so ignore its title and look at it as "¿Which european civ deserves to be represented in Civ4?") ; 2) the intended poll, but you`ll have to vote with your replies. Here, i`ll only count the votes in the replies, in order not to repeat votes.

The partial results of the first poll are seen above.

This are the partial results of the second one:

1) Spain .......................................... 3 votes
2) Holland and Portugal .................. 2 votes
3) Celts and Vikings ........................ 1 vote.

	17-07-2002 01:59									#8
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Please, those mysterious voters who selected the option "One not listed here", please write....
It would be interesting if you could tell us which is your supported civ. I really would like to know which Civ you wanted to vote for, even if it is a question of nationalism.

	17-07-2002 02:07									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Partial results of 2nd poll after Sagacious Dolphin`s vote:

1) Spain ............................ 4 votes
2) Holland ......................... 3 votes
3) Portugal & the Vikings .. 2 votes
4) The Celts ...................... 1 vote

	17-07-2002 03:20									#10
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Spanish, Portuguese, Vikings

	17-07-2002 19:43									#11
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Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

Spain ......................................................... 3
Belgium, Holland, Celts & Vikings .............. 1
One not listed here ................................... 2 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after Gangerolfs vote -

Spain ...................................... 5 votes
Portugal, Holland & Vikings ..... 3 votes
Celts ....................................... 1 vote

	19-07-2002 02:15									#12
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Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

Spain ......................................................... 4
Belgium, Holland, Celts & Vikings .............. 1
One not listed here ................................... 2 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after Gangerolfs vote -

Spain ...................................... 5 votes
Portugal, Holland & Vikings ..... 3 votes
Celts ....................................... 1 vote

	19-07-2002 02:22									#13
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Please note that Holland is only 2 of the twelve provinces of what is now The Netherlands.
Which is still not the same as the Dutch civ.
Flemish and Boers are also part of the Dutch civilization.

	19-07-2002 02:54									#14
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Sorry Ribannah,
I cant change in anyway the poll, so my errors will last for ever there.
This error surely comes from this:
In spanish, the Netherlands are called "Holanda". You can also call them strictly "Los paises bajos", but "Holanda" is a lot more commonly used.
In english, because of this, I always used "Holland" and "Netherlands" as sinonims, cos I didnt know they were different things.
Excuse me for that.
Hugs

Yellfromhell

	19-07-2002 03:06									#15
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That's OK, let's hope that Firaxis gets it right when they finally put the Dutch in ....

The Dutch provinces used to be separate powers, competing and fighting with each other, before they united. Holland, powerful and on the coast, was naturally best known elsewhere so in many languages that name stuck.

	19-07-2002 15:45									#16
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My votes for:
1.- Spain
2.- Other (Iberian civ)
3.- Portugal
Cheers

	19-07-2002 19:30									#17
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I´d vote for:

1. The Spanish
2. The Austro-Hungarian Empire
3. The Ottoman Empire

Pretty ridiculous to have the Vatican there, almost as funny as having the Basque. Other than that I don´t know why they would put the Prussians as an independant entity away from Germany, would be pretty strange. Especially considering that Bismarck was the premier of Prussia.

	19-07-2002 21:01									#18
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spanish
turks
dutch

	19-07-2002 21:34									#19
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I think: Germans, spanish and the English

	20-07-2002 03:30									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

The English is taken as read, its about who deserves to be in but didn't make the last cut.

	20-07-2002 04:26									#21
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Sorry all of you,
Stalin II`s vote is my fault. See: because of one of the many errors I made, the title of the thread does not say "new civs" as the title of the poll. Once again excuse me.
Yell

	20-07-2002 04:38									#22
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Papa Chubby,
The poll doesnt have to be absolutly serious. I included the Vatican because its influence in history cant be denied, it has "embassies" nearly all over the world, it had an army, put taxes, had leaders, etc. ¿Why not then? Obviously today it sounds ridiculous, but in the past it was a power trying to impose over the others in its own way. About the Basque: well, they are still the only people in all Spain that had never been conquered. BTW I thought it could be interesting to include some options that transpass todays european fronteirs. In the same line of thought is the argument in favor of including Prusia: this state influenced enormously in european history, so I wanted to give an "nationalist" option for some ocational german voters.
But, as you see, we can vote with our posts, and that fixes in someway my errors. Please, if you have other options to suggest, tell me so I can learn about those civs.
Thanks
Yell

	20-07-2002 04:53									#23
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Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

Spanish ......................................................... 5
Belgians, Dutch, Celts & Vikings .................... 1
One not listed here ...................................... 4 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after Estilpón´s vote - (Stalin´s vote could not be included)

Spanish ...................................... 8 votes
Portuguese & Dutch.................... 4 votes
Vikings ....................................... 3 votes
Turks .......................................... 2 votes (one as the Ottomans)
Celts ........................................... 1 vote
Austro-hungarians ...................... 1 vote
Iberian civ ................................... 1 vote

Thanks
Yellfromhell

	21-07-2002 04:31									#24
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Hm, I still have to vote.
Here goes: Dutch, Minoans, Norse (Vikings)

	21-07-2002 04:57									#25
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Partial results July 20 - 21:50 GMT -3 hours

Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

Spanish .................................................................. 5 votes
Belgians, Dutch, Celts, Turks & Vikings ......................... 1 votes
One not listed here ................................................... 4 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after Ribannahs vote -)

1. Spanish ......................................... 8 votes
2. Dutch ........................................... 5 votes
3. Portuguese .................................... 4 votes
- Vikings .......................................... 4 votes (one as the Norse)
5. Turks ............................................. 2 votes (one as the Ottomans)
6. Celts ............................................ 1 vote
- Austro-hungarians .............................. 1 vote
- Minoans ........................................... 1 vote
- Iberians ........................................... 1 vote

Thanks
Yellfromhell

Last edited by yellfromhell on 21-07-2002 at 05:07

	21-07-2002 16:52									#26
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Spanish, Vikings, Dutch

	22-07-2002 00:40									#27
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Partial results July 21 - 17:38 GMT -3 hours

Patial results of first poll (¿Which new Euro-Civ deserves to be in Civ4?)

Spanish .................................................................. 5 votes
Belgians, Dutch, Celts, Turks, Poles & Vikings ................ 1 vote
One not listed here ................................................... 4 votes

Partial results of 2nd poll (¿Which 3 new Euro-Civs deserve to be in Civ4?) - after Villes vote -)

1. Spanish ......................................... 9 votes
2. Dutch ........................................... 6 votes
3. Vikings .......................................... 5 votes (one as the Norse)
4. Portuguese .................................... 4 votes
5. Turks ............................................. 2 votes (one as the Ottomans)
6. Celts ............................................ 1 vote
- Austro-hungarians .............................. 1 vote
- Minoans ........................................... 1 vote
- Iberians ........................................... 1 vote

Thanks
Yellfromhell

	22-07-2002 17:09									#28
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Posting an update after every vote may considered as spam. Be careful.

	22-07-2002 17:29									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hi Sagacious Dolphin,
Thank you for the advice. Anyway, I wont be caring about if someone can consider or not spam what Im doing. We have the policemen out there, then why must I have one inside my head too?
Hugs
Yellfromhell

Last edited by yellfromhell on 22-07-2002 at 21:40

	22-07-2002 19:36									#30
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I say Turks, Spanish and Celts. These 3 are (or were) great and distinct civs, which had many achievments on their own (not just some things different with the neighbour).
I think Portugal shouldn't be implemented for the same reason that Catalans shouldn't be implemented : by "Spanish", I hear all Civs from the Iberic Peninsula, even if they have differences among them.
By the same token, the "Germans" encompass all Germanic people, from near Danes to Austrians and Prussians (they're very different). "Chinese" encompass southern and northern Chinese, who speak different languages and have distinctive culture also.