16-07-2002 05:32									#1
	POLL: Using the Demographic Statistics Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm kind of wondering about the use of Demographic stats in CivIII. I know in previous versions of Civ, they were key indicators in your analysis of your strategic positions, and your competitor's strengths/weaknesses. But do you use them in CivIII? To what end and how?

	16-07-2002 05:42									#2
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I never bother to look at them.

If I want a decent idea of how I am doing in the game I use the F8 screen.

	16-07-2002 06:00									#3
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The F11 screen is intresting but would be much better if they ranked everyone in each category just so we could see.

	16-07-2002 06:03									#4
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I usually look at them just for fun. I like it when all the categories are in blue, meaning you're leading in all of them...

--Kon--

	16-07-2002 08:43									#5
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Carver,

You are so right! That's one of the things I used to like about the Demographics screen. Now, just telling me I am or am not #1 is not as useful as knowing who IS #1 if i'm not. They should've had it that once you establish an embassy, you can see the rankings of other Civs, at least who's #1. Then, they might add a feature that when you build IA, they now let you see what a particular Civ ranks regardless of if he's #1 or not. It just seems like there isn't alot of information available for using the Demographics in your competitive analysis. Oh well....

	16-07-2002 11:31									#6
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I tend to pay a lot of attention to where I stand in GNP, Manufactured Goods, Annual Income, and Productivity, and also a fair amount to Literacy Rate. If I'm leading in those, I can expect a fairly easy win since I can probably out-produce and out-research the AIs. If I'm not, I need to seriously consider going out and conquering some more land.

Literacy is a bit tricky because conquering enemy territory drags one's literacy rate way down. All those pesky foreigners are illiterate, at least in my language, so gobbling up enough land can take me from first to near the bottom. But if I was doing well in literacy before I turned conquistador, I don't worry too much about it.

Some of the other stats - things like family size and life expectancy - I don't worry much about because I don't see a lot of long-term implications for gameplay (although they might provide clues to current population growth rates if I knew how to use them). And I'm usually way down the list in military service, because (1) I emphasize quality over quantity, (2) I don't like to waste any more production on military units than I feel like I have to while in builder mode, and (3) the bigger the nation, the less time the average citizen has to spend in uniform to maintain any given size of military.

I do wish I knew more precisely how a lot of those stats are defined. For example, what's the difference in GNP and Manufactured Goods (in gameplay terms)?

Nathan

	16-07-2002 21:22									#7
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Does anyone know how to increase your stats? Some of them I can't figure out how to increase, like Military Service, Family Size, Manufactured Goods, and Per Capita.

	16-07-2002 22:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I do wish I knew more precisely how a lot of those stats are defined. For example, what's the difference in GNP and Manufactured Goods (in gameplay terms)?

I wish the same, Nathan. As it is now, it is of limited use.

As for the GNP/Mfg Goods, I guess the first one refers to your total Commerce (arrows), the second one to your total Production (shields).

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Does anyone know how to increase your stats? Some of them I can't figure out how to increase, like Military Service, Family Size, Manufactured Goods, and Per Capita.

Well, as for Military Service, I guess you need to build more military units (it should be something with the population to the number of military units ratio), although I do not think this statistics is of much relevance (as it considers only the number of units, not their quality).

For MfgGoods, allocate more people to tiles with lots of shields (mined hills & mountains). For Per Capita (and GNP), allocate more people to tiles generating high commerce.

No idea 'bout the Family Size tho...

	16-07-2002 22:07									#9
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Perhpas Firaxis could tell us the formulas used for calculating these numbers?

	16-07-2002 22:12									#10
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The list of demographics is the same as in CivII, and most (or all?) of the formulae were figured out. I don't remember where the info is - search the CivII Strategy forum. It was a long time ago, they may be archived by now... I imagine they are more or less the same in Civ3.

I check F11 from time to time. As nbarclay says, it can point out where you need to improve.

	17-07-2002 23:35									#11
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I use the F11 and F8 screens routinely. F11 definately provides me with info I need to know how I'm doing. Land area alone is an extremely usefull stat. Since land area is tied into game score why would anyone ignore this useful tidbit?

Another stat I find usefull is the literacy and mfg. goods stats. They both help me gauge how my civ fairs wrt the others. If I can out produce and out science the others then I can assess whether I want to go to war or not.

Sidenote:

F3 is the final stat screen I look at before declaring war. Even if I have no spy in the target civ, as long as my advisor tells me we are at least avg. compared to them, then the war begins.

	18-07-2002 02:40									#12
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Once, I got family size to 31. (That had to hurt! ) As family size increased, my approval rating did as well. When my civ matured and family size dropped off, so did my approval rating. I wonder what Kinsey would report about that!

	18-07-2002 02:45									#13
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I think you mentioned something interesting there. I can see a combined use of the Demographics with the use of the AI and the new intelligence options. If Demographics are properly used during analysis, they should be a cheap means of figuring out how you stand in comparison to other nations. For example, if you had a ton load of cash, you can use your Embassy or Spy to investigate another nation's best cities (ones with the highest money value). However, looking at the Literacy and Mfg Goods stats you could at least assess your position compared to ANY nation.

To reiterate, I still think they should not have take out the ability to see how a non-#1 nation is ranked, or, if you're not #1, who is.

	18-07-2002 19:37									#14
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As mentioned above, conquest leads to illiteracy! The literacy rating works after a long peace; Once you sack a pile of cities, it drops drastically.

	19-07-2002 21:45									#15
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I usually dont look at them until I'm well established as a powerful civ. But I do pay special attention to literacy thru the entire game.

Dave

	20-07-2002 02:28									#16
	Put an end to popups!

I'm finding that although the Demographics to me are not as useful as they were in previous versions, IMHO, there many be some use for them afterall. I'm testing some things out, because the use of Demographics is different based on the style you play, but there may be hope.....