17-07-2002 01:13									#31
	Suffering from ads?

These are all great points. Unfortunately, though, there really is no practical way to eliminate non-citizens (by that I mean the general Apolyton populace, not people like disorganizer) from voting. If we were to use the method of people posting their vote, first that would eliminate the anonymity of the elections that is one prided part of democracy, and also it would take an incredibly long time to both make sure the voter is a citizen and then to record their vote, and to make sure that they didn't double-post at any time.

I think the only possible solution is to include on the poll posts something asking non-citizens not to vote.

	17-07-2002 01:23									#32
	Increase the size of your Attachments

MarkG has said in the presidential election thread that he can tell us what the tally of votes by the citizens only is. The way he worded it, it seems he can do this himself without anyone else knowing who voted for who.

He also said he was looking into a new voting system for us:

quote: eitherway, there are no signs of someone fixing the vote. i'm now looking into a system connecting the democracy games registration process with voting

We just might get a solution handed to us (though that's no reason not to think up other methods).

	17-07-2002 01:26									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

or maybe more speaking thread-titles. including the civ3-demo sign or something...
maybe some just mixed up with the search function.

	17-07-2002 10:46									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, unless MarkG comes up with some problem (and it appears he has not), then we cannot alter in any way the results of any polls to date, nor can we question their validity based on the points mentioned here. There has been no compulsion to sign up, and many steadfastly posting and contributing citizens have not done so. To declare their votes invalid because WE did not tell them they had to sign up to vote is out of the question.

It is clear that a DL problem will almost always exist, but I am convinced it is minor. Unless, once again, MarkG or others can find a practical solution, the only way to really cut down on the problem in such circumnstances is to have a link in the polls to the sign-up thread, and to remind everyone to sign up before voting.

I think there is likely little problem, but the fact that there are so many more voters in the Prez poll than elsewhere has caused some alarm. It is understandable to suspect here, but perhaps we are being a little too paranoid. By any means, I do not believe in this case that any DL votes have affected the poll outcome significantly, with a very narrow difference between the two candidates' vote numbers. You may look at this and say "MWIA is an idiot - with a margin that narrow even 4-5 DLs could cost someone the elcetion. True, but in this case the candidates have nullified this possibility for the moment anyway (declaring joint victory as they have ), and I think the closeness of the vote shows that there is nearly 50% of the citizenry that will be happy, and 50% will have voted for the loser - but probably won't mind anyway. And in the end, isn't that what we want anyway, Ministers and a Prez who we are happy leading us?

	17-07-2002 10:49									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: (declaring joint victory as they have ),

the joint presidency is no more.. Trip decided to concede after we saw the results of the poll

	17-07-2002 11:00									#36
	Inflate your Upload Space

A very possible mischief still exists. That being persons who have absolutely zero interest in participating in the game, but who just post votes to muck with things. Or worse, to send us down the wrong path.

Forgive, my paranoia. However I point to Mark's statement about 'distress' re the number of people who are not on the citizen roles.

Further, there is Chieftess' warning about the influence of people who are mainly participants of other forums (but who have a Poly log on). I thank her for pointing that out. I believe she is the cfc Demo game President currently, so I think she may have some experience in such things.

	17-07-2002 11:00									#37
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well then. My tirade that was being unleashed upon the relevant threads need not continue. A shame. I was quite looking forward to composing what I had to say.

	17-07-2002 11:21									#38
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I personally am a member and participate actively here, at CFC, and at 1Bigcommunity. But, I don't participate in this DG to muck it up. I do to learn about the game, share opinions, etc. If 1BC develops a DG, I would resign from here and participate there, or I would participate in both. If a friendly competition developed between the 2 sites, I would resign from here, so as to avoid the appearance of improperness.

In reference to:

quote: i think what the people are most concerned about is that some other users will just vote in the polls without reading any statements or taking time to think about it. basicly, they are just voting for the sake of voting. Whether they intend to or not, they could mess up the election.

Voting in the polls does not require thinking or reading statements, just like in the real world.

I don't read political statements (the campaign threads), I read the candidates comments in chats and other threads. Their words give me (and anyone else interested) plenty of info on that person's stand(s) on issue(s). I also don't read the election poll threads since I don't believe that is an appropriate venue for discussion. Imagine going to a polling booth and hearing campaign speeches; not usually allowed. And on the issue of voting just to be voting: if you are a citizen, it is your right and choice, in some countries, it is a legal obligation.

Another example: I have one computer, but I also have a wife. I use Cable modem with a static (?) IP. If my wife joined (she hasn't and probably won't unless I don't spend enough time with her), then it would appear as a DL even though she votes her own way.

In the same vein, I could sign up and vote from a different computer (the Library, for example) and it would show a different IP.

	17-07-2002 11:32									#39
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by kring I personally am a member and participate actively here, at CFC, and at 1Bigcommunity. But, I don't participate in this DG to muck it up. I do to learn about the game, share opinions, etc. If 1BC develops a DG, I would resign from here and participate there, or I would participate in both. If a friendly competition developed between the 2 sites, I would resign from here, so as to avoid the appearance of improperness.

No one is complaining about (or suspecting) you kring. You are as welcome as I am (maybe more so sometimes )

However, there may be many who never participate whom many of us would like to know about if they register.

	17-07-2002 16:11									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

Kring,

I didnt mean the people like you you actually take time in to look around and inform themselves a bit. I mean that there could be someone out there, who just hears about the democracy game, follows a link in someone's siganture or something, then just clikcks on a option and votes. This person is clearly not a part of the democracy game. The election was obviously very close this time, and just one or two of this "type" of voters could make a difference. And if they do make a differnece in the election, the people might not see ho they really want as president, and that wouldnt be a democracy, would it?

	20-07-2002 14:06									#41
	Put an end to popups!

Sorry for the late reply, nye and trickey, I didn't mean to imply I was suspect. I get your points, though.

I agree about some that register just to muck it up. I was just using myself as an example on the one extreme; the other extreme is the one being referred to.

quote: You are as welcome as I am (maybe more so sometimes )

Is there something I need to know, nye?

I enjoy the interaction, except for the occasional partisan politics, and hope to get into the turn chats more, but work interferes. I dislike it when someone joins a game, of any sort, just to muck it up. Unfortunately, there are limits on to what you can legally do to that person; sadly, there are too many people out there that are that way.